Understand? good now play!(Understand the Art!)

DrUnKNiNjA:

unfortunatly this type of problem exists in other martial arts as well. It's hard for a new student to get the feel of what the true essence of the art is..In today's age, there are many "detractors" which can cause confusion. it's sad in a way, how the politics of MA can hide the true value and knowledge a new person can learn..
Having participated in several different arts, I have noticed a few MAJOR things which can reflect poorly or greatly on the same art.

Politics: Sensei X is greater the Sensei Y or Club X is part of this "federation X" so it's not as good as "federation Y".

Teaching Styles: Sensei X is very traditional, where as Sensei Y is very modern

Students: Students that are very respect full, vs students which are very Lax and disrespectful (Eg coming late to class and disturbing the whole class)

Level of contact: some clubs are very "intensive" some are more relaxed.


even with teaching the exact same same thing, this can appear very differnt to new students..


The "difference" for me was in being able to look past this and see the value in the art itself (moves, techniques, fitness, and most importantly the growing of one's "self" )

For myself., I could care less who the teacher is, or what style, or even how it's taught, the importnat part is what I pickup and learn, and how I can apply it to my training or my daily life to make me more "appreciative" what what I have learned..

 

DrUnKNiNjA, could you (please) give me a more specific exercise routine to prepare me for Ninjutsu?

 

DrUnKNiNjA, thanks for the bicep suggestion; look forward to trying that. For the knees, I'm just concentrating on physical therapy exercises for now -- there are tons of them that don't involve kneeling, squatting, etc. They just don't seem to yield the same level of results as shoulder physical therapy, though. I was hoping to find something (within the parameters of what I am able to do) that would give faster, better results.

Luckily, I can work around my knees and arm in class -- just have to adjust certain techniques, and be careful about how I fall. Some ukemi, I have to avoid. My joints usually feel better after class than before, though -- maybe this is telling me I need to exercise them more (with the right kinds of exercise, of course).

 

hello im back from my short trip im sorry i havent been here to help with your questons and kinjiro i do hope that i helps you, and welcome CKC to MAP..... Now, blacksun there are lots of excercises i could tell you to help you prepare for ninjutsu but unfortunatley i dont think there is enough room in this forum for it, so if you would like me to email you an extensive training guide then just give me a buzz and if anyone else would like me to send the same guide just PM me with your request! but if you have any specific exercises for certain areas like kinjiro i would be happy to post them here in this forum!

 

hey honey i figured it out, i just wanted to say hi if you are on when im at work... love ya

 

hmmmm looks like the ninja have all gone to their winter camps and have no other questions, well i have one! what is Saiminjutsu? And why is it important that a ninja knows how to use it?

 

Hmm... Just stopping for a quick visit now so I'll try to write about Saiminjutsu later this evening if possible. What I want to know is why everyone thinks we're hiding in winter camps. I know this Ninja is simply doing his training outdoors in the colder temperatures and freshly fallen snow. Heh heh.

 

I gotta go with Josh on this, no winter camp. As a matter of fact, I prefer it indoors with the heat on. Call me a chicken or a big sissy, but Man, I hate the cold!
Good question there.. I know it in my heart and mind, but it will take a day or two to put it into words.

 

She's pulling your legs guys she just wants to know your interpertation on it!! she's having a right ol giggle right now about you kurohuna and your wet feet! well answer anyway its always good to see how everyone feels about it but i agree with you kurohuna it will take me day or two to put it into words, well until then have fun chatting with my wife!! i have to go away for a seminar on accupressure! so i will be gone for a few days but my wife is willing to answer any questions while im gone! its DarkDragonFly if any of you havent met her yet well have fun you guys

 

No winter camp here, but we are going to have a winter training class. It will be my first, so I have no idea what to expect (anyone else here been to one?)

 

i have been to many winter camps! they are really fun and cold be careful of things that lay beneath the snow

 

Winter is Over, and Spring is Sprung

I quite liked this thread, and felt like bumping it up. It has a nice vibe to it, like most of the posters actually know a little of what they are talking about. That is a rare and welcome sight here as of late. I've been pretty disappointed with a lot of the recent discussions here. Maybe I'm just not finding what I'm looking for.

Anyhoo, I like the title of the thread: "Understand? Good. Play!" - being the title of Hatsumi-sensei's latest book. I have yet to read it myself, but have heard a little about it. Has anyone here seen "U?G.P!" ?

I'd like to see some synopses, opinions, recommendations, etc.
It will likely be my next MA book purchase.


Now for some input to get this ball (of melted snow?) rolling again!

To DrUnKNiNjA, thanks for being so generous in wanting to share some training experience.

However, . . .

“Kiten ken

(Wisdom blade)

Use the sides of the hands, with the hand open approx 60 Degrees. Snap the hand open on impact. (The strike is used a lot.)

Nio ken . . .” etc.

These excerpts look very familiar – like I saw them on another website before. If you are copying this information from that particular website, I only ask that you state such and give credit to your sources. Otherwise, it is easy to throw around accusations of plagiarism. Sorry, but this concept was drilled into me in my studies at college, so now when I see it, I wince a little.

I’ll just do you a little favor . . . .

Okay, after a quick search using google, I found the source of your information:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/sukisha/gyokko.html

That website has a lot of information, but alas it is also notoriously fraught with inaccuracies. Also, it appears that the information on that website was taken from a video transcript or lifted from a training manual. The clue is that some of the technique descriptions read more like captions to pictures, but without the accompanying pictures, they don’t make much sense.

Alright, with that out of the way . . .

Kagebushi: “is there any difference between boshi ken and sh_to ken or are they just different names for same attack? also is Nio ken the same as fudo ken?”

As I understand it, boshi ken is a particular strike that uses the shi-to ken principle, but then again it is most likely a case of two terms for same idea. I think that nio ken is just another name for fudo ken, but whenever I see nio ken mentioned, it is more of a back-fist or hammer-fist type strike whereas the fudo ken term is more general, but almost always refers to tsuki (front knuckle) punches.

And as a free public service, a lesson in Japanese language (get out your vocabulary notebooks, kids!):

“kiten ken” does not = wisdom blade. The way I have seen it written in nihongo, uses the kanji “ki” = to rise, and “ten” = to turn. “ken” means blade when referring to a sword, but is written with different kanji. The “ken” in this case means fist-weapon.

As far as I have seen, this is the Gyokko-ryu term for “shu-tou” (hand-sword).

“nio ken” almost means spiritual blade, as “ni-ou” refers to two great god-kings of Japanese mythology/religion – which implies that this is a fist of godly strength.

“fudo ken” = unmovable fist. In this sense it is pretty much the same as nio ken but without the divine name.

“bo-shi” = stick finger (a finger like a wooden staff).

“shi-tou” = finger sword

“chin ken” – don’t see this very often. I can only assume that it refers to “chin” = strange/unusual.


47Ronin: “In your opinion- If you put a trained Samurai against a trained Ninja in a sword fight. Who do you think would win and with what skills?”

I know this isn’t the answer you’re looking for, but it is the correct one: The ninja would win (of course!) With what skills? The ninja would shoot the samurai with a gun. Asking a ninja to participate in a fair fight is asking him to not be a ninja.

In my opinion, when it comes to fighting, playing by the rules is against the rules.



But, okay, fine. If it was just up to sword against sword, and assuming that both fighters had weapons and armor of equal quality and spent the same amount of time and effort in training, then yes it would be pretty equal, but since I’m biased, I’m still going to have to put the ninja on top. Samurai trained to fight against other samurai, and used (for the most part, if they were nice enough guys) “honorable” tactics.

Ninja trained to specifically thwart the tactics of samurai, and used unorthodox methods to appear weak/unskilled, and to confuse and irritate their opponents. But still – that scenario is so un-ninja-like. You mean the ninja doesn’t have any throwing stars, blinding powders, poison-tipped blow-darts, or grenades? Just a sword?

The assumption that both fighters being similarly equipped and trained is a bit of a stretch too. The historical reality is that most ninja did not possess battle gear of quality matching samurai, nor did they have the luxury to devote much time to swordplay. So then assuming that the ninja didn’t have a gun or poison dart, then I’d still say that the ninja would win – by running away.


Two other topics brought up in this thread: body-conditioning (taiso), and evasion.
I’ll throw in my 2 pesos (can’t afford cents yet.)

Taiso = body conditioning, and usually refers to junantaiso (developing a flexible body), so stretching is a big part, as is breathing exercises, but also incorporating a healthy diet is important.

On evasion - I’ll give a few tips that I have received from various Shidoshi:
1. wait as long as possible before moving.
2. move as slow as possible and still not get hit.
3. either stay very close, so as to quickly counterattack, or move very far away, so as to quickly run away and hide.
4. 1. & 2. should be combined with proper angling (and other tactics) to force the opponent to over-commit and actually believe to be successful in making the hit until it is too late for them to respond.

e.g. against the front kick to mid-section: stay calm - go ahead and flinch, it’s natural - but don’t jump out of the way in fear. Don’t move until the kick is a split-second away from landing, then move backwards slowly absorbing only a small portion of the kick’s force. The kicker will think he has knocked you back with the kick and feel successful; however, a hand under their heel and a continued backward motion and then a turn will cause him to lose balance as his leg is extended farther than he planned.


I also have some joint pain problems (knees, elbows, shoulders – the usual). I don’t know of any specific exercises that can alleviate this problem beyond simple weight training to build up the surrounding supportive tissue. In my training though, I go by the following advice:

Patient: “Doctor, it hurts when I do <this>.”
Doctor: “Then stop doing that.”


Also, I like these simple rules for training in ninjutsu (especially remember them when practicing ukemi (falls/rolls): If you are making any noise or feeling any pain then you are doing it wrong.


An idea:

I’d like to see more discussions along the lines of, “Last night in training, we did <this>. I learned <such-and-such>, but don’t quite get <this aspect>. What do y’all think?” (for the non-southerners, “y’all” = you all. I live in Florida – big shout-out to my Florida buyu!)

 

UGP? Read it? Yes I have. Excellent book, but a waring, if you have never trained with Hatsumi Soke, some of the quotes are going to fly right over your head. However, if you have, then you will read some and go "Dang! That's what he meant when he said .....". Quite often the little light bulb above my head would go on while reading thru the book.
I highly receommend it!! 5 Shurikens!

 

aah its good to see a grown up discussion for once with no nutters flaming things up for once!

Is that dodging thing talked about on page one simply nagare (flow) i think, dont jump down my throat if its not but i think they might be talking about that, its just a sideways movement,

and i love training in the cold, i love that tingly feeling when you come back into the warmth!

 

nagare / tai-sabaki

Greg Chapman: "Is that dodging thing talked about on page one simply nagare (flow) i think ... its just a sideways movement, ..."

nagare is a principle of movement. There are taihenjutsu technical names for evasion movements that contain words meaning to flow. Ryu-tai undo, tachi nagare, e.g.

Kinjiro -on page one- mentioned ukemi that are flowing movements which can be used for evasion, but are more a part of breaking falls.

The tips I gave on evasion are mostly about flow - going with the flow of timing and being relaxed and fluid with one's own body.

Sword evasion is something I've been working on a lot in my training lately. I'm going to start a new muto-dori (swordless take) thead to share some experiences and to get some new perspectives (hopefully).

 

Hi everyone i'm back!!! i'm Glad to see that this thread is ressurected!! A big thanks to Sshh for clearing up my mistakes!! greatly appreciated!!! and i'm glad that everyone is in good health!!!!

 

Welcome back to MAP, DrUnK! Glad to see you're alive and well! Look forward to seeing your posts on the various threads again.

 

boy i sad glad alot!!!

 

Hi there everyone! This has been a great thread so far, and I"m glad to see it's still going.

I'm fairly new to martial arts, and lately I've been hearing a lot about bujinkan taijutsu. I'm interested in learning more about it, and maybe checking out some practice locations near me. DrUnKNiNjA, you are from BC too, I see! Got any pointers about how I could go about learning more about bujinkan around here?

 

http://www.bujinkanburnaby.netfirms.com/WELCOME.htm

Link off www.winjutsu.com seems to be in Vancouver. Check them out.