Hi all, Last night I was watching The Ultimate Fighter: Team Liddell vs. Team Ortiz - Episode 8: Closed Mouth Don't Get Fed * Kris McCray defeated Kyacey Uscola via submission (keylock) at 0:59 of round 2. * The quarter final matchups are announced * Nick Ring discovers that he requires his third ACL reconstruction surgery and faces the choice between fighting on and risking tearing his meniscus, or withdrawing from the competition. Ring withdraws and is replaced by James Hammortree. * Court McGee defeated James Hammortree via submission (guillotine choke) at 0:28 of round 2. I was watching the fights and I noticed a few things. In round 1 of one of the fights, the fighter was throwing out stamp kicks to the knee with great effect. Keeping his opponent back and when he made contact he injured his opponents knee and his opponent crumpled to the floor. My first question is, I didn't know stamp kicks to the knee were allowed, is this correct ? My second question is, while in a kind of half mount, the guy on top elbowed the guy on the bottoms head, witha kind of push-elbow. Is this allowed also ? Or are the rules semi-relaxed for practice competitions ? Thanks for you time,
Both of those techniques are fine and totally legal IIRC. Not entirely sure on the kick but elbows certainly. The only illegal elbow is the "train whistle" 12-6 vertical elbow. Stamp kicks up until now have been rarely used and when used rarely decisive (usually keeping a guy off but not putting him down or out). Knees are not as easy to damage that way as some art would have us believe. Uscola's kick worked pretty well and clearly hurt McCray as you say. He caught him with his leg straight and moving forward. But even then he still lost eventually. Maybe a couple more and he'd have won it via knee damage? There's also the issue of whether such a kick was OK to do "ethically". Potentially ending a career for a TV show could be construed as a douche thing to do (as I believe americans say). So while it might be within the letter of the rules it still made me cringe to watch it (and didn't wanna see another thank you Mr Uscola).
Cool, thanks PASmith. So, just so I understand: 1. If both fighters are on the ground, elbows to the head are allowed 2. Stamp kicks to the knee are allowed, but are ethically questionable.:thinking:
That's about the size of it. If both fighters are on the ground, elbows to the head are allowed - Except the aforementioned 12-6 elbows. See Jones v Hamill for this in action. Stamp kicks to the knee are allowed, but are ethically questionable. Stamp kicks are allowed but you will get called all sorts of dirty names on "teh intawebz" if you use them.
My understand is that striking with the point of the elbow is not allowed. Whereas using an 'elbow strike' where in reality the forearm makes contact is allowed. Can't comment on the kick in question.
Like PASmith said... You can strike with the elbow. Just downward elbows are dissallowed You can kick the knee. EDIT - the full UFC rules are posted on their website.
And this dude... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxk0vrD9h0c&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxk0vrD9h0c&feature=related[/ame] Awesome elbow.
Stamp kicks blow. Maybe with steel toed boots or cleets but barefeet don't stomp as hard as you think. If you take the shoes off shin kick. Considering every other way you can hurt someone in MMA I strongly doubt there's an ethical dilemma. Tactically it just doesn't work as well as some might think.
Have you seen the Uscola-McCray fight Pitfighter? The stomp kick used REALLY worked. Nearly ends the whole fight IMHO. A bit more ooomph and McCray might have been done. Considering every other way you can hurt someone in MMA I strongly doubt there's an ethical dilemma. Have a look at Bloody Elbow, MMA Junkie, Sherdog etc. Plenty of comments about how Uscola was a jerk for using the kick. So whether you doubt its existence or not there is the perception that the kick is a douche move among some people. Tactically it just doesn't work as well as some might think. I agree with that bit.
Rule 22 (in fouls): Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent. This seems like a pretty subjective rule, could a successful knee stomp be a foul under this? And for anyone interested here is the complete list of fouls: Fouls: 1. Butting with the head. 2. Eye gouging of any kind. 3. Biting. 4. Hair pulling. 5. Fish hooking. 6. Groin attacks of any kind. 7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. 8. Small joint manipulation. 9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head. 10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow. 11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea. 12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. 13. Grabbing the clavicle. 14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent. 15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent. 16. Stomping a grounded opponent. 17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel. 18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. 19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area. 20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent. 21. Spitting at an opponent. 22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent. 23. Holding the ropes or the fence. 24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area. 25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break. 26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee. 27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. 28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee. 29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury. 30. Interference by the corner. 31. Throwing in the towel during competition.
You can't point to an exception and use it to explain the general rule. There are always exceptions. Name another fight it worked in. Yea I'm sure a lot of people who never saw the technique before thought it was jerk move. That explains about every other move in MMA that was never seen by the masses. Look they can work but they usually don't. Spinning backhanded fists also work as do flying armbars but they don't usually work. Jeez.
Ive seen anderson silva use them too. For the record though - I do think kicks to the knee are wholey overated in terms of their fight ending potential and the damage they can inflict.
I imagine if someone stood still with their leg firmly in place and was stomped clean it could do some damage in the same way bas ruttens punch can supposedly break peoples faces but in an actual fight I'm with Hello. They hurt no doubt but I think the chances of doing it and shattering someones leg are low.
As far as I'm concerned the main points on this thread are not how effective this particular kick is but whether it is legal to do in the UFC (it is) and whether some fans watching will think you are a bit of a turd for using one (there are such fans). I've never said that this sort of kick is "teh d3a67y". It's just a kick. Some people can make them work. I think if they had less of a douche label so easily attached to them they'd be used more.
Well if you want to start a ****ing contest.... Name a fight for every fight that I list which was won with a cross punch. Fedor vs. Rogers Shogun vs. Machida 2 Rampage vs. Liddell, if I remember correctly either one Fedor vs. Arvloski Anderson Silva vs. Irving Anderson Silva vs. Griffin Mike Russow vs. Todd Duffee Scott Smith vs. Cung Le I can name a few more if you like.:jester:
What about on this forum ? What's you opinion on this mappers ? Is it something you frown upon because either a) it could cause injury or b) it is against UFC rule 22? Or do you have no problems with using it, receiving it or watching it ? I for one would not discount a technique because of what the "spectators" think.
I winced when I saw the second kick on tuf but overall I dont have a problem with it. It's an effective technique and mma shouldn't be about what looks nice for fans thats whats killing judo at the moment with all the rule changes. I dont think its against the rules either I doubt people doing it are actually trying to shatter someones leg to me unsportsman conduct resulting in injury is stuff like that complete douche who held onto a heel hook a few ppvs back in the prelims. On that note if your going to ban that stomp then ban heel hooks, achilles holds, kneebars, neck cranks and anything else that can cause damage quite easily.
Well if you want to start a ****ing contest.... Not really. You asked for another fight in which that kick worked. I gave you one. If you don't want your questions answered then I'd suggest not asking them? If you think answering your question is me getting into a "****ing contest" then you must think every trip to the supermarket is one too? You: Do you have any tomatoes? Assistant: Yes sir they are in aisle 5. You: Do you want to get into a ****ing contest? Assistant: Erm...not really sir...I just answered your original question. All I'm saying is you seemed to be offering an opinion on a fight/technique you haven't even seen yet (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong on that). And then in discussing that kick (the legality, fan perception etc) somehow thought I've said that right crosses don't work or something. You said that "I strongly doubt there's an ethical dilemma". I have seen with my own eyes discussions where fans are saying it was a tosser thing to do. I never said I agreed with that just that that perception was there. I'm not wrong about that. On that note if your going to ban that stomp then ban heel hooks, achilles holds, kneebars, neck cranks and anything else that can cause damage quite easily. I think the bone of contention is not the damage caused but the fact that you can't tap and save yourself that damage. All those other things are not damaging if the other person decides to tap. That might be why it's considered a bit questionable by some? I don't know as I'm not someone that thinks it's dodgy to use. It gets used in Thai all the time. Although personally I've a bit of a phobia about legs getting mangled so I did cringe when Uscola landed it and you could hear the ligaments cracking and McCray screaming (although the ligament sound could have been my over active imagination! ).
