Trump by name......

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Dec 9, 2015.

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  1. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Ideological soundbites, whatever.

    Whatever I say, you object ideologically.
    Whatever you say, I object ideologically.
    It's not worth the cost of the dance.
     
  2. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Ideological soundness. The only positives you've been able to list for Trump are that he conforms to your ideology, you have not articulated any good that he seeks to do. For a president who's proposing to wage a domestic war, well, the bar should be a little higher. Never mind that though, we are literally facing a threat to our species and nearly every other (tardigrades will be fine, thank the maker) in the form of ecological collapse and Trump proposes to eliminate the EPA (when he can name it). Do you think that this is a position a politician should take?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  3. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Prove me wrong. Give us one thing that you think Trump brought to the table that the other Republican candidates didn't.

    Business Experience? Carly Fiorina is a much better business leader, who earned her way to the top, she didn't inherit it.

    Domestic Policy? Lindsey Graham, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul all have more knowledge over domestic affairs

    Foreign Policy? Marco Rubio has forgotten more about Foreign Policy than Donald Trump would care to know.

    Executive Experience? Any of the governors in the race have executive experience.

    So what is it that you think made Donald Trump the man to vote for?

    I promise to engage constructively (but robustly) with any points you choose to make.
     
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

  5. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  6. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Quick, perhaps off-topic, question for Gio and/or Philo.

    When I check my FB and IG I see a lot of support for Sanders, I mean...huge amount of support for the guy. But, I use my social media for keeping up with music and the punk/ hardcore/extreme music scene has always been very liberal and left leaning.

    So, is he actually popular or am I just in a bubble as such?

    Of course...I could research and think myself, but I want people to tell me what to think...bit like a Trump supporter.
     
  7. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    he is very popular among certain segments.

    i think he's fine. he's not trump, so right there that's a win. i don't like his single payer plan; there are other reforms i'd rather see in the health care industry frankly. i agree that wealth inequality is a problem, but i think we have existing ways of addressing that with a higher top tax bracket and changing the capital gains tax. i also do not agree on his proposal for free higher education. those are just some highlights. there are other things that i agree with, some i don't. he's for empowering women to have access to their own health care, without government bureaucrat or religious interference. he's for the judicious use of our military. he's for lgtb equality as i am.

    but he's not a conservative. in my book, a huge win.

    either hillary or bernie would be fine executives of this country. especially compared to the alternative.
     
  8. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think I'm kind of in the same bubble; Sanders has enjoyed widespread support from younger voters and really social media all over the place. At this point it looks like his campaign will not be successful at securing the nomination. A lot of people are really upset about the prospect of a second Clinton presidency, but I'm trying to remind myself that she will likely select supreme court justices who will be as liberal as those picked by Clinton and Obama.
     
  9. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    First, that makes no sense. You're chastising me for liking a candidate who (at least in part) thinks the way I do. As if, (gasp! shock!) that's unthinkable! How dare I think about voting for a candidate I agree with! (gasp! shock!)

    :rolleyes: Sheesh, doesn't that sound hypocritical and, well, stupid? Or are you going to vote for a candidate who does not agree with you to any significant degree?

    Second:
    Me: He wants to get rid of the Dept of Education.
    You: That's just ideological. What actual thing would he do that you agree with?
    Me: He would get rid of the Dept of Education.
    You: That's just ideological. You haven't named one actual thing that he would do, that you agree with.
    Me: :dunno: I don't have time for this tripe.
     
  10. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I understand that you are running up against your capacities for understanding. That's ok. Let me distinguish for you the difference between and a tangible good and ideological agreement - it would be great if a politician affirmed for me that he or she disagrees with racism. We would be in ideological agreement. But there is no tangible good there without an implemented policy that actually combats racism. Let me know if you're still having trouble with this - I appreciate that the nuance is clear.

    Your only reasons for dismissing the department of education is that you believe this should be done on a state by state level - this is an ideological basis for supporting the measure, it shows no goods that will come of such a thing. I have shown you that education quality suffers enormously under this (my opposition is based upon this tangible harm), you simply say that it is bullying to reject religious instruction and historical white washing in schools. So what tangible good do you see resulting from this measure? Does it compensate for the fact that he wants to kill hundreds of thousands of people and degrade our ability to protect our environment further?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  11. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You realise that every major Republican candidate was in favour of getting rid of the board of education, and that Trump's position was by far the most luke warm. Where people like Cruz, Rubio, Huckabee and Paul all said they would scrap the dept. Trump merely signalled that he would review whether or not to eliminate it or to slim it down.

    So on the one concrete policy issue you have signalled agreement on, you've picked one that he was wishy washy on and that every other candidate agreed with you on.
     
  12. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    This is pretty certain, isn't it? Most of the news that I have seen suggests that it is impossible for him to win the primaries now.
     
  13. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Trump loves the Clintons
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    philosorapter, a well worded argument doesn't need to start or end with a patronising statement.

    You'll not change anyone's point of view by claiming they are at their limit of understanding.

    If that were the case the rest of your post isn't necessary.

    Also you're better than that.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Well, how anyone could be against a guy who has not one but two endorsements from the KKK is beyond me :rolleyes:

    "I am the king of debt, I love debt. I love playing with it.

    [...]

    I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal, and if the economy was good, it was good. So therefore, you can't lose."


    - Donald Trump.

    - http://www.vox.com/2016/5/6/11607464/trump-haircut-default-debt

    Trump haters are just afraid, because they're too weak to survive race war and global economic crisis.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  16. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    You get the sense that he really formulated his theories on international economics from his bankruptcies.
     
  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Man! That is the thing I don't get! He games the bankruptcy system to make his money! People talk like he is a good businessman because he is rich, but he has multiple bankruptcies, which tells me I do NOT want him managing my government's finances!
     
  18. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Surprisingly popular and gave Hilary a run for the candidacy, but not enough to win the nomination.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Weirdly, running a countries fianaces is nothing at all like running a businesses finances, that's why all countries trying to cut their way out if debt are failing to thrive.
    either way trumps approach spells disaster.
     
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

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