Trump by name......

Mine seeks whisky and bacon.

 

"It doesn't matter who's president when you have bacon in your mouth."

Louis CK

 

I'm not writing people in cities off. I am stating that rural America provides the substance the general populace needs to survive for the most part. If we didn't have the electoral college, do you think the rural state's needs would be addressed as much as the states with high density urban populations? Roads for transport, subsidies for farming, etc.? I'm sure they would to a degree, but probably not as much as needed (or rather, "wanted").

I don't think the rural hatred towards city dwellers comes simply from them being city dwellers. The cities are propped up by what rural america produces for the most part. People in cities wouldn't be working all that well without a steady supply of food and material to do their work would they? The trade off is they (rural) don't live in and see the world in the same eyes as the people benefiting from their labors(urban). They do see people who benefit from their work prospering, and then sending jobs overseas though. I think it's also often due to such a heavy focus on social issues that are simply not as relevant in rural areas, and for the special cupcakes in rural land: having too thin a skin and being offended by everything (which is ironic, because they find it offensive to be offended and are therefore overly offensive themselves).

Also, I don't believe I was strawmanning. I believe what I said was ambiguous and could be left open to your interpretation, but the conclusion you came to wasn't what I meant. The urban population benefits mostly from service jobs and globalized jobs. From what I've seen, urban minds often look towards a globalized viewpoint vs. the rural side a nationalistic view. This is pretty strongly associated with the current dynamic of dems/repubs.

With that, of course it's asinine to say all repubs live in rural areas and dems urban. There is a strong association towards that comparison though, enough so that I feel it's ok to make that generalization. We're all smart enough to know it doesn't mean ALL rural or ALL urban.

I think I stand with Greg's reply on your initial comments. It really rubs off on me as being caught up in fear mongering.

Cities are most certainly economic drivers! That's because we have a globalized economy. However, rural america and what they produce are the reason for why the city's economy can thrive. You can't have the economic productivity without food!

As for rural populations dealing with the social issues . . . . sure they do. But you know, to a population of 99% white people in an area farming it sure isn't as relevant to their view on life as people in a mixed ethnic area.

I also like to think our country has matured a little since 1998. Long way to go still? Absolutely. I don't think you would find that situation as frequently as you would in 1998 though.

Hate is such a wasted tool, directed in so many useless ways.

 

I would agree with you more if globalization didn't also mean "let's get ahead on the backs of poor nations and slave labor (basically that's what it is). It's not as honky dory as you just made it out to be, unfortunately.

 

Maybe it does, but when people seperate from each other see those patterns, they might be there.

It's not that Hitler said right away: "Oh, and right: Of course we will commit genocide and kill all the jews".

 

I think it's relatively secure to say that Trump does not respect the process of governing, is trying to concentrate power in the hands of a loyal circle of followers, has appointed white nationalists to the most powerful positions of government, ditto for extreme Islamophobes, conducted a campaign on racial animus that has continued into his governing, and is conducting a purge of government employees.

At the same time, we have a dedicated group of people who are actively seeking authoritarian rule, unbound by democratic norms.

That's pretty scary stuff man.

David Frum posted an interesting article about the differences between totalitarian rule in the 21st and 20th century, one that was persuasive to my views anyway.

https://www.theatlantic.com/press-r...tlantics-march-cover-story-online-now/515115/

If you're into it, I'd also look at Peter Pomerantsev's Nothing is True, Everything is Possible. Hell, even just independent to this discussion it's a pretty damn good book.

And vice versa of course.

Right, like I said before, I feel hopeful about this whole thing. Certainly more draconian laws targeting marginalized groups have been passed before; but I think we have a much more compassionate and aware populace. I think we emerge from this bloodied but not broken.

 

Yeah, this is a really good point. By the same token I'm not sure why anyone is around the 'let's slash regulations on minimum wage and basic work safety conditions and bring the factory jobs here!' train.

 

Also are we still doing 'phrasing'?

 

I'll have to look into the book and read the article. Will probably get to the article soon. If I can post on MAP I can read an article xD. (been so busy lately)

I really detest trump, and I really despise his cabinet picks. It's always fun talking and disagreeing with trumpets. Same arguments all the time and an automatic assumption that I was a hillary supporter xD. The idolization of him from those buying into it is sickening. You can support somebody and what they're trying to do without idolizing them.

A lot of your description of trump in the first paragraph I feel you could insert the majority of politicians (with a white nationalist spin). The difference being that he doesn't hide behind too much or try to divert attention from what he is trying to do, he's direct about it. If there's one thing I can say I like about him it's that he's a piece of dooky, acts like one, and is pretty straightforward about it. He won't stab you in the back, he'll do it from the front. Easier to know your enemy that way ^_^

 

+1 for the Archer reference #bringBackTheThanksButton

 

Well, we cover our worker's by Workman's Compensation (because you have to if you're a legit business xD, but we would do it anyways), wouldn't ask them to do anything we wouldn't do ourselves as far as safety goes, pay them really good wages for the area, offer them time and a half on weekends frequently, and get way more involved in helping with their personal lives financially than we would like to. I can't honestly say I care about the mcdonalds worker, or somebody in a factory beyond whatever the value of a prayer or "hope you do well!" does. I have my own set of people to worry about and I'll do my best to take care of them regardless of if the law says I don't have to, or that I don't have to pay them much.

That's me though. I only partake in society to benefit from it and in my eyes I've done enough contribution to it to look at it like I do. And I still pay my taxes (happily too!). I think I mostly pay attention to politics to 1.) know the system I'm in so I can figure out how to benefit and 2.) know if I need to clean my guns.

If "phrasing" is what Urban Dictionary said it was, then YES. Did you learn that from the school kids? I've never heard of it called "phrasing" before xD

 

i'm not making anything out to be hunky dory. but if we don't engage those poor nations, then conditions won't improve, for those workers or the environment.

as consumers, we also can be informed on what to spend our money on, and should seek companies that have a strong environmental and worker rights posture, like levi's--and there are more examples.

but the most important thing to understand is, there are not enough workers in the united states to support the consumer economy we already have. again, we are at less than 5% unemployment. which isn't even counting many, many illegal immigrants or otherwise that are picking our produce. we are at practically full employment, yet american companies still have factories all over the world.

 

I have significant doubts that robust worker's protections will remain intact.

No offense, but I suspect this is part of the reason you're blasé about the Trump presidency.

Reference from the TV show Archer, you should watch it, you'd love it.

 

I see your viewpoint, you just look at things with more of a positive and hopeful outlook. I tend to see things through a darker lense.

The funny thing about illegal immigrants is that they probably aren't as big of a problem as made out to be. There are probably just as many white people getting paid cash and off the books too. I'm in construction and see under the table stuff happening all the time, and it's not the illegals getting it half the time : P

 

i see your viewpoint too. i don't totally disagree. and i am generally optimistic and hopeful, even though right now i feel like i shouldn't be.

 

It's not as clear cut as far as worker's compensation you know. They are raising our worker's compensation in Florida by a significant figure. That means we have to charge more for our work, which everyone wont do (some people in our trade will just drop workers comp and pay people under the table). This in turn will make it harder for legitimate business like the one I help manage struggle to find work (struggle, not make impossible).

So on one hand, you raise my worker's compensation, require me to spend more money on safety, all of which either cuts into the company's overhead profit (which isn't as much as people like to think it is) or the men's pay, and on the other hand some businesses can't afford it so they start doing things under the table which makes it harder for me to find work . . . . . . .

More regulations CAN hurt. It's not going to hurt the big guy nearly as much as a small business like mine though.

There's no offense taken to your statement. I very well KNOW that this is why my viewpoint is what it is. It keeps me from getting emotionally involved which helps me to try and look at things a little more objectively and along with my lack of a specific value system, I feel very vulcan sometimes 0_0. One day I'mma' check out of society. I gave ours 4 years of my life and a lot of health/well being and I'mma' play the game to try and get ahead enough to check out of it some day. You gotta' know the game to play it though, which is why I pay attention and discuss current events/ politics with people : P.

We are clear that I detest trump as a person though, right?

 

Hey I get it, my point is just that we're going to have to compromise somewhere. The price of an iphone is reflective of the lack of regard for worker safety in China. Maybe bringing that manufacture to the US AND maintaining worker rights might lead to insanely expensive computers, but also overall better working conditions.

I get that you detest Trump as a person. I also think that objectively speaking, there are consequences to putting someone like Jeff Sessions into office as Attorney General, not to mention elections as a whole. I doubt the DoJ will conduct probes into law enforcement or voting rights for example. My guess is that there will also be significant ramifications to placing people like Bannon, Pence, Pruitt, or DeVos into office, not to mention whasisname. Gorsuch too.

 

I always see and agree with your viewpoint in any of our back and forths (regardless of if it gets a little snippy). I'm generally "that guy" in a group of friends who whenever people start being optimistic about things, I give an alternate viewpoint that receives the, "you're such a downer!" statements. Being cynical and negative seems to work better for me. I'm the guy who wants to put a "If anything can go wrong, it will" bumper sticker on my car to counteract the "If anything can go well, it will" sticker xD.

Most of my viewpoints come from the cynical side, and trying to understand people and why certain things are going the way they are. I need to perfect translating that into my writing better. I really don't have any agenda, I'm just giving my perspective on my observations.

I think being optimistic is just fine. Sometimes it takes falling down to learn how to not do it again (until history decides to repeat itself again).

 

What I don't like is that big corporations, like apple, have a lot of the same rules as a small business but a whole lot more influence and power. THAT needs to change.

Did I forget to add that I think nearly every person Trump has appointed is disgusting and deplorable to some degree as well?

 

sorry, i know i'm sometimes a little snippy. it's the ελλάδα (greece) in me; which is say, all of me.

but i'm pretty honest too. and ero i like you, even though around the edges we might disagree on certain things. lol then it wouldn't be a discussion forum would it. :love: