Tried wing chun today.

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Kframe, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Hey guys. I finally got off my bottom and visited a Inosanto affiliated school today. Now Saturday offeres a ton of class's, basically every thing on the list. I only had time for two of them. Wing chun and Kali.

    Well I was not sure I would like wing chun but surprisingly I did. The schools instructor is certified in Wing Chun by Sifu Randy Williams.

    After the simple bow in we did the sil lim tau form. Now I have never done forms before, so I struggled to keep up with it. However they went slow and I bumbled through it.

    After that was probably the most enjoyable part of wing chun for me and that was the partner drills. We did a bit of everything, worked all the basic deflections(I cant call them blocks as that's not how they worked. At least I don't think) and strikes.

    We even got moving pretty fast, as the deflections and simultaneous counters were easy to pick up on. These were just drills to teach movement and basics, not fighting application.

    After the super fun partner drills, we did some line work. Which was basically practicing foot work. First it was just moving from left stance to right stance up and down the mats. Then we added in punch's. Finally moving with kicks.

    We bowed out and that was it.

    Now after the kali class was finished, we talked about training in general at this school. The discussion eventually got around to pressure testing. Which is were I asked, as directly and pointedly as I could. Do you pressure test and spar. The instructor said yes. Now since we were talking about wing chun, I asked, if they meant chi sau. They said no, they do chi sau and free sparring with scaling contact. Depending on who is sparring and their skill level.

    They explained that sparring to them was super important. That they recognize that they cant spar everything, like eye pokes and other destructions. But they could spar basic striking and defending and movement. They also said they spar every art they teach.

    I think they do hard contact sparring to, as they were talking about the numerous sparring bruises and such they got. The assistant instructor apparently a long while ago was a medalist in some big Stick fighting competition.

    So I think I may have found something rare in the wing chun world. A place that spars, with decent contact.

    So I think I just found something special. A fun wing chun place that spars with contact.

    I would love your opinions and thoughts. I however am likely to be going back.
  2. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Some things I found difficult were as follows. During some of the partner drills I was required to do a low vertical palm strike(not sure of name?) I found that to be awkward as heck. Might be that im not used to palm strikes or that angle. Also as my partner was a experienced female, I was constantly worried about incidental contact.. Having to palm strike various parts of her rib cage and then that thrusting palm downwards I was constantly watching my self. Last thing I want is to make a training partner feel uncomfortable and dis-respected. Maybe that is a topic for a wider map discussion?

    Unsurprisingly I found keeping my self in vertical fist to be hard.

    Another interesting thing I noted was my prior training kept creeping in. LOL it was funny at times during partner drill were I have to throw three strikes. I found my self either chambering my fist like we did in karate or up in my boxing guard.... I was subconsciously switching back and forth.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  3. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I've done grappling with lots of female BJJ'ers. Incidental contact happens. I think it's kind of obvious when someone is and is not trying to touch you. I've certainly known the difference between when a woman is trying to touch me and when it's just jitz.
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    As a female, I would say don't worry so much. Contact is a part of contact sports. I think one could tell if one was abusing incidental contact and doing something creepy.

    If a female has issues with general contact, she should find another hobby.

    Some beginning TCC students seem concerned about this in push hands. They get over it. Students should largely be able to trust each other. If the school environment isn't like that, it is time to find another school.:)
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When I taught my Taiji class in YWCA, one day I taught them (all girls) the application of "An - double push". I pushed on my opponent's both shoulders instead of her chest. She then said, "You can push on my chest. It's OK". I didn't have the courage to do so. Another day I walked into my Taiji class, another girl pinched on my butt and said, "Man of iron". I suddenly felt like a sheep fell into a group of hungry wolves.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  6. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Kframe, have you actually seen anyone spar in either of the classes? Do they use protective gear? Gloves? Face guards? I am interested in whether they spar with anyone outside their club as well.

    Sparring with class mates and without gear often doesn't amount to sparring. Fingers crossed that this isn't the case where you are.

  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Could you ask your WC instructor the following question, "When doing the WC form, you only move your arms and you are not moving your body. Should your body pushes your arm and not your arm pulls your body? Should you put your body behind all your punches?"
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  8. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I agree, with what the others said before me: Even though I never experienced that, I'm pretty sure that 98% of the people can make out the difference between touching, because it's part of the game or for... well, other reasons.

    Personally I probably touched every body part and had it touched, because it just happens.
    Or when I or my partner are working on a technique and getting corrections or explanations - I remember waiting and listening and not paying attention where my hands were; they were probably all over the chest of my partner and vice versa as well, when the positions were switched.
    Personally I don't even think in that direction during practice.
    Once a partner apologized, because apparently a hand slipped off but I didn't even notice that and had to ask, what the apology was for.

    After all, as Aaradia said: It's a contact sport, so contact in inevitable.
  9. wckf92

    wckf92 Valued Member

    Speaking for myself / my WC: even in the 1st form, where it may seem like only your arm is moving...ultimately it is all derived from /powered by your horse/heels. Later, when the student learns the ideas behind 2nd and 3rd form...more body movement/emphasis can be/is added for power generation.
  10. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Regarding gear. Yes they spar with gear lots of gear. They have a full complement of gear from fencing masks and some weird padded over coat thing. Also so boxing gloves and amateur helmets and other things.

    From what I heard of the conversations its pretty hard to. No I have not seen them spar as I literally just showed up today. I had been invited earlier to show up if I liked when ever and this was the most convenient time.

    Im fairly convinced of the fact the spar as their assistant medaled at Arnold Battle of Columbus World Martial Arts Championship in 2002 and in 2003. In fact this is who was my teacher today.

    From what I gather they spar, but likely not every day like most mma gyms. Based on my conversation with the assistant she made it sound like sparring was very important to their school.
  11. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Im not entirely sure what your trying to say their? Can you dumb it down for me? Im assuming your talking about power generation. When I watched and did the forms I don't see how you can move much during the Slt. What with that odd inward pointing feet stance.

    Also I didn't get to see the other forms as they moved on to partner drills after SLT.

    They all cross train in kickboxing and other arts their so im going out on a limb and assume they know about proper power generation.
  12. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Thanks for the thoughts and advice guys. Regarding the incidental contact thing, its just man we're in a litigious society and I'm just trying to not be a dinkus. I may not be a feminist(im a dude is it possible to be a dude feminist?) but I try to remain cognizant of their issues with men.

    Ill say this, some incidental contact was made and I apologized each time. They just said no worries each time, and didn't make a big deal out of it. So I assume they kinda expect it.

    Also a lot of my issues are in my head. I am put fear into things I shouldn't, and worry that people will get the wrong idea of me. Causing me to be very overly cautious and apologetic. Though I don't get that problem here oddly? Im far more comfortable on Map then I am in most places. I tend to sometimes talk with out a filter. LOL.
  13. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I hate it when people apologize for that xd
    Because it's just so normal that you get touched like everywhere. If I were to start thinking about that as well, I'd probably go nuts ^^

    And that I know very well.
    My two teacher tell me all the time to relax and not to worry about everything; and to finally stop apologize for everything.
    Actually a teacher I hardly talked to so far already told me the same xd
    But I saw him three times already after all, so... ;)
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Do you like the punches shown in the following clip?


    If you compare the following 2 clips, you can see a big difference there. In the

    - 1st clip. you can clearly see the power is generated from his legs. His body is moving as a single unit.
    - 2nd clip, it looks like he only moves his arms without moving his body.

    Even if I learned the 2nd method, I like the 1st method better. The 1st method matches to my primary CMA system much closer (body push/pull limbs).

    Which method do you prefer?


    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Most WC instructors don't address this important issue during the beginner training stage. This will make the beginner to wonder, "If I don't put my body behind my punch then where will my punching power come from?"
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  16. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    ykw from what I remember, theirs was more like the second video. However I only saw the assistant instructor as the main instructor was out on vacation so it was a very small class. I also like the additional body movement of the 1st video. Though they were doing it real simple and slow for me.

    While I prefer the first video, I am going to with hold final judgement on this place till I have seen more class's. I need to see more, and I need to see the long term students and how they move when working with each other.

    However I think that this is likely a good place, just based on what I saw and my discussion with them.
  17. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Yes, it's possible to be a dude feminist. In fact, it is encouraged. :]

  18. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    You should stick to what you know, which is clearly not WC.
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I would like to hear SWCSifuBen's opinion on those video's. I don't know WC. My art, Choy Li Fut is VERY different than WC, so I am not sure what criteria to use.

    But that first video looked weird to me. Sure, he was using more body in the punches, but he was also coming up and down and doing weird things in his stance that looked weird- wrong - to me.

    I have watched other WC video's and in that art they just don't seem to move the shoulders like that first video in that form. It us usually more like the second video. Very different from my art, but I don't know which way it is supposed to be done in accordance with the principles of that art.

    That is what I want to know. Is it just that WC is rarely taught properly, so I see most video's being more still in the shoulder area or is that the way WC is supposed to be?

    I did have the impression from another forum that James Sinclair is highly respected in the WC community, but that could just be a wrong impression based on one forum.

    SWCSifuBen, where are you?
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You can be a feminist.

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