trapping

i am aware that a lot of martial arts use trapping techniques.but what i have noticed is that they mostly apply them to their own style of punching and kicking.
what happens when they fight somebody from a total conflicting MA

 

Great question! My 2 cents:

Just about every art spends a lot of time "training against itself." It's just the nature of how a class works. It isn't an effective use of time to train students to simulate other styles.

But at the end of the day there are only so many basic ways to punch or kick. A good trapping system is geared to take into consideration all of those basic patterns. And any good trapping system opperates at that higher (or lower depending at which way you look at it) level. Through repitition, a person who trains trapping internalizes reactions so that when an opponent's punch/kick conforms to a certain situation the trap engages.

A good instructor should also be able to address subtle changes that may need to be made based on a particular systems strength's and weaknesses.

From personal experience, on a good days I've been able to trap people from a variety of martial arts.

- Matt

 

I'll 2nd what Matt said.

I've also trained and sparred with people from a wide variety of martial arts and used trapping effectively against them.

Trapping is no different than punching, kicking, locking, throwing, etc. It's just another category of tools. The brand name on the tools isn't nearly as important as the ability of the person using the tools.

Mike

 

THANX FOR YOUR INPUT GUYS.GREATLY APPRECIATED.
BUT I HAVE NOTICED(MIGHT BE WRONG)THAT WHEN STUDENTS PRACTICE TRAPPING,THEY MOSTLY JUST STAND IN FRONT OF EACH OTHER AND EXERCISE THE TECHNIQUES WITH PUNCHES(MOSTLY CHINESE MA).WHAT DO YOU DO AGAINST A EXTREMELY POWERFULL KICKER?CAN YOU STILL TRAP AND COUNTER?

 

PERSONALLY I HAVE NEVER BEEN TRAPPED.IM SURE IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE OF A LACK OF TALENT OR PROPER TEACHING IN MY COUNTRY.BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IT CAN WORK IF YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH.THE QUESTION IS OES STRENTH HAVE ANYTHIN TO DO WITH IT?

 

My experience is that Trapping works really well in non contact sparring, and not so well in full contact sparring....

Don't get me wrong, the concept is still used, it just works differently.

But I'd same the same thing applies to classical "blocks" as well.


My question is why is this in the TKD forum...?

 

Well there are a couple of things at work here.

1) "standing in front of each other and exercising the techniques with punches" is a training mode - and the most basic training mode at that

2) Trapping is, in many ways, a range of fighting. While it's possible to find traps at long range (which is kicking range in empty hands), it's not very likely. So if someone can't close in then they can't trap. Just like they won't be able to punch if they can't get to punching range or elbow if they can't get to elbow range.

But then it also kinds of depends on how you define trapping. To me, "trapping" is simply obstacle removal. So if I parry a kick in such a way that the kicker can't recover quickly and I'm able to close in then that parry was an effective trap. But it's not what most people think of when they think of "trapping." They think of the classical traps (i.e.: using Wing Chun terminology: pak sao, lap sao, jao sao, jut sao, etc.).

Now we're back to point #1 - those classical traps are just training tools to teach the concepts and principles involved in trapping. If someone gets lost in the training tools then their growth will be stunted.

If you visit http://impactacademy.com/articles you'll find a link to an article I wrote called "Applied Trap Hands" - the article is also here in MAPs "Magazine" section, for that matter. This article might answer some of your questions, too.

But the bottom line answer to your question is - if a trapper can't get in range for the trapping tools to work then he can't trap.

Does that mean kicking is better than trapping? Of course not. It always boils down to who is better with his/her tools at the time of the fight - and luck is always a factor, too, but we can't train for that. We can train our tools and improve our odds. So - if the trapper is better at getting to the trapping range than the kicker is at keeping him at kicking range then the trapper will have the advantage. If the kicker is better at keeping the trapper outside of trapping range, though, then the kicker will have the advantage.

Mike

 

ROFL - I hadn't noticed what forum this was in. That's a really good question.

Mike

 

IT IS IN HERE SO THAT IF OTHER TKD STUDENTS SEE THIS THAT THEY MAY HAVE SOME TKD ADVICE FOR ME.MAYBE THERE IS A TKD STYLE THAT INCORP. TRAPPING TECH'S.I DONT KNOW ABOUT.

 

BY THE WAY.
I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK PESILAT.PEOPLE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM YOU.YOUR STUDENTS ARE HONORED IN MY OPINION

 

Thank you. I'm flattered

BTW - friendly advice - typing in all caps on discussion forums is the equivalent to yelling at people and can be offensive. Either proper casing or all lower case is better - and leaves room for expression when you do want to yell at somene

Mike

 

Mike,

I just wanted to second compliments on your posts (especially since your trapping post beat me to most of the points I was going to make).

We view traps in much the same way. They're not so much isolations (though a temporary isolation can occur) as they are "openers & closers." My art uses them to close off an attacker's line towards us and simaltaniously open our own attack lines.

Most traps however functionally work in the space of a few inches. Taking Wing Chun as an example, most people assume that a Lap Sau (pulling trap) is geared to immobilize the person's arm. However you find that if you pull the trapped arm to far towards you, it will impeed your follow up hit (becuase the person's shoulder will shift into the path of your punch). Functionally the Lap is only meant to "trap/move" the person's arm out of the way enough to open an attack line for you.

The trap, like a check, only exists for a moment. If it progresses much further than that your moving into grappling.

- Matt

 

thanx for the tips and advice on the trapping.and sorry for shouting at you guys.
ps.i got into the ring with a jeet kun do ma last night and i asked him to try and trap me as much as he could.it felt like my attacks where diffused the moment he got to me,but on the flip side of things,he could also not land many counter attacks on me either.
i imagine it looked like an old kung fu movie where a milion attacks are attempted and all are blocked or stopped.

 

Yup. That's the way good trapping should feel. From the outside, it probably won't look like much. But on the inside, it should feel like you're wrapped in a wet blanket and can't get anything effective off.

However - in my experience - good trappers can also land shots while shutting you down. Of course, I don't know the guy sparred with so have no idea of his ability. But based on your description, he sounds like a competent trapper but not a really good one.

But it's also possible that you're as good at countering the trapping (by training or instinct) as he is at trapping - so you end up in a "Mexican Standoff."

But the ideal of trapping is that, once we get into the trapping range, we control all the dynamics of the fight. We control what you can and can't do and we're able to create openings (or take advantage of openings they give us) and land our own attacks.

But, of course, "the ideal" is never what we get in sparring or fighting. But that's the goal of trapping. And the better a trapper is the closer to that ideal they'll be able to pull off in sparring/fighting.

But, of course, no matter how good the trapper, other elements always like the skill/ability of the opponent(s), the environment, and omnipresent luck (good or bad).

Mike