O boy, here we go......... If you want to ger really traditional. Go to Kukiwan, check it out. That is the true stuff.
But how does being associated with KKW, make tradition? I'm going to really play devil's advocate in this thread, an idea I've been playing with but I need some other ideas and opinions first
In my mind, traditional TKD would be when I first joined TKD. 8 yrs ago. It was sacred, to be a black belt, there were only 1 or none blackbelts in the entire school. We had to train 24 hours non stop, with out food, or water. Then we would be tested at our weekest point, to gain our black belts. Even kids, like me. That's how I got my JUNIOR black belt. I had to test again, to get my pure black belt. Now, it's totaly different. Kids 8 yrls old! Don't even know pattern Saja! Get there black belt, and only have to train 2 weeks before testing, for 1 hour! Now, masters are handing out black belts, like they were candy. Black belts, used to mean something. I know, that my fellow comrades, in my generation, earned the right to be called "Sir" or a true black belt. But still, it dosn't feel so great, all that hard work, and ppl who don't know patter 4, are getting them, with our juniot, while there 6 yrs old, they get the black belt. It makes my black belt rank feel worthless. Yet I know I am a true black belt, and deserve it.
So you would be attesting that tradition is something that is done in the past? Something that you once went through that may no longer apply in TKD or even other MA schools. Correct me if I assume wrong please. BTW, I'll have that workout to you as soon as I can get back into my school, its closed for the holidays, so give me a week
Barefoot in the snow up hill BOTH WAYS!!! If all you got out of your training was a belt I'd say it was a waste of time. Belts where a mistake, a really big one, and one we are stuck with. Now many instructors are just trying to make a bad system work for them. Don't think about them to much or you'll always end up frustrated. There is nothing special about a "black belt", there are no special standards, no secret wisdom, no secret decoder ring, in the end it is just a retention tool that in my opnion is a failure, but we are stuck with it. You say the standards have fallen, which may be true. So what? If there are more kids still around after 3 years then there where before I'd say the changes where an improvement. The level of skill after 3 years would also be a better thing to look at, not the colour of belt.
That's a good way of thinking. I like to not think of belt status sometimes, but rather the quality of the martial artist. His passion, desire, and performance.
i would say itf is closer to triditional tkd than anything else. the kukkiwon is a joke they spend more time ripping people off than anytihng else. HKD
But what makes ITF more traditional? Okay I'm going to throw this out there. Back in the 1800's when the MA were starting to be constructed into structured classes and systems, there probably wasn't alot of communication between schools. Each school had their own way of teaching, even if it was the same system. The little differences in training would be that particular schools tradition, right? Who created these traditions within the school. The kwangjang of GM of that particular school. So how can it be said that ITF is more traditional than the Kukkiwon style when neither of them are under just one instructor? Even if an instructor uses contemporary training methods, would that not be tradition at his school if he continued to incorporate them into his teaching and workout?
So you attest age with tradition? Okay how about if my family used to eat turkey at xmas, but then decided we liked ham better and switched to that for our xmas dinners. Eating ham is new to us, but then it becomes tradition if we continue doing it.
True, In my view, how things were done way back then, a couple millinia ago. That's tradition. However, they(referring to people living in that age) attested to another 600 yrs back, that that was tradition. And so forth.
gen. choi was ITF thats what makes it more triditional they didit his way , i don't know if they will always but when he was alive they did . the kukkiwon is more on sparring than anything else.
to me tradition is wat my teacher followed n learnt from his teachers n so on... i hav learnt this way... -TkdWarrior-
yes, but he's talking about tridition as how it was originaly taught. kukkiwon and wtf isn't how tkd was is the begining. sparring wasn't the main thing then and isn't the main thing for itf tkd.
oh well i hav not much idea boaut kukkiwon or other styles of TKD except for WTF n ITF. anyways in my area we(ITF) follow Gen Choi's by heart...we do it the way he taught to our teachers n then to us... well sparring isn't the main thing but it's still in Gen Choi's book so we do it those ways...almost everything... -TkdWarrior-
Ahh but I never did say that. TKD warrior said tradition is what his teacher taught him . . . to him that is how he was originally taught for him that is his traditional training. Does it matter how he was taught or what he was taught? And to further clear something up about Kukkiwon, HKD, they have very little if anything to do with the olympic style sparring, which I think you are referring to, it's the WTF that covers that base. TKDwarrior, I think so far you've said it best. It's how you are taught, which leaves a wide open book for anything. Your particular way is following Gen Choi, whereas mine is not but either way we can consider it traditional in our own aspects.
oh yes for many years the kukkiwon and the WTF tried to get tkd in the olympics with no luck, the USTU took over some time in the 90s and got it in the olympics. the WTF has nothing to do with the olmpics now.
Tradition is a "way of doing things" that is passed down in a preserved state. When you start a tradition you are the first to pass down that "way" of doing it. When you end a tradition you have decided not to pass that "way" down. There is no minimum or maximum time limit on traditions. Robert
