Traditional vs Modern MAs

Perhaps the only differences between traditional martial arts and modern martial arts is that one has had more time (more generations) to become diluted.

Traditional arts were considered modern arts at some point when they were new. Then over time, these arts have become diluted. When something is diluted, it becomes less potent.

Modern arts, over time will suffer the same way and become diluted. The main reason for this is because many teachers will not be as qualified to teach as those before them. They will not be able to teach at the same standard as those before and thus will teach an inferior product/version of martial arts. Their students will then pass on inferior product.

On the other hand, newer is not always better. I am not saying that all martial arts become inferior over time, some grow and become better. It is up to the students that then are teachers to be sincere and train hard so that they can keep the status quo or even pass on something superior.

One thing is to understand that something new may be incomplete and even flawed... this is natural. Just like how something done when we are young may be effective but we later realize that it was dangerous and inefficient compared to what we know now. We could do things better/smarter. So modern martial arts can be full of flaws and dangerous practices that need to be refined as the art matures. The art can get better and become more complete.

Constantly be on the alert, however, that as time goes on, students will pass on knowledge and technique that they are not qualified to teach or conversely, they will omit knowledge and technique that they do not understand.

I think that some people have the right idea when it comes to these things. You can have an authority (such as the founder of a system) that oversees and determines the direction of an art, but every student should seek out multiple teachers when the time is right, because rarely is one teacher qualified to teach everything. At least in most cases, the combination of many teachers qualified in different areas with some overlap will provide a more complete learning experience with less chance that an inferior product will be passed on to the next generation.

IMHO.

 

Haha, I pulled a can opener on a judo black belt who was big and so strong and getting ready for a competition in Abu Dhabi. He had never seen it before! Haha, he was so close to tapping.

I also like how in jujitsu, Muay Thai and kickboxing, a lot of the time the class is learning the same thing because its all so basic. Are TMA's the same?

 

Jujitsu and Muay Thai are TMAs... aren't they?

 

I would certainly say so, but judging from the op I would assume he meant karate and Kung fu. ;3

 

Not so. Back when I did BJJ Roger Gracie's father, Mauricio Motta Gomes, had a pretty legendary knee on stomach that was horrible for all.
I also went to a seminar with the SBG where we covered things that were called "pomissions" too.

 

Mauricio is my Instructors Instructor. And Rick attests that The Knee-on-belly position is Mauricios favourite position and it's absolutely unbearable.

he told me once he rolled with him for an hour, and every time they started Mauricio started from knee-on-belly.


Ouch.

 

can opener

Thing is Chadderz, spine locks are illegal in judo from what I remember.. much the same as doing a grapevine/twister is probably illegal in BJJ? I wouldn't be surprised that you would catch someone with a technique like that... there are throw counters in judo that are illegal because of the damage they would do to the player initiating the throw so they are avoided but I bet they would tear someone's knee up really well if applied in a fight :' S.

Just sayin as you sounded surprised that the person was unfamiliar with a technique they weren't allowed to train :' D

LFD

 

I guessed that he didn't train for it. It was a no-gi/CSW class so I didn't feel too guilty. ;p

 

Most of the time, yeah. It's perfectly common to see the noobs and the more experienced folk practising the same techniques/kata/movements over and over again. Much of the "advanced" training is really just applying the fundamentals in a different fashion, after all.

 

Yes. We drill the fundamentals every class, and occasionally add something new. Lots of nitpicking things to death, but that's how TMA's are passed down accurately.

 

in my opinion, depends on the art. as long as pressure and testing are continuously applied, then the techniques and training methods that remain will continue to work. look at judo, it's a distillation of jiujitsu. wrestling has been with us for ages. so has pugilism. those arts work because of pressure and testing. and will continue to work. and won't suffer from dilution. because let's face, there's only like 6 punches anyway...lol...how can you dilute six punches?

look at something like aikido. why is it always such a big deal to trace the lineage back to m. ueshiba? because, like you say, people rightly figure that the farther one gets from m. ueshiba, the more diluted it will be. and you start getting stuff like ki aikido, which isn't very martial.

 

That's why I think BJJ is the best grappling art, as they have the most open ruleset. The only things that are banned in our school are Kanibasami and jumping to guard.

 

I agree in principle with your above statement. Pressure and testing is a reason why a martial art can continue to be progressive and effective. When, for example, some technique gets diluted because it is not understood or it is changed for the worse, then it often will not pan out under pressure and testing. This is a method for weeding out the bad and keeping the good.

All of the above has suffered from dilution over time, IMHO. They all have suffered from a loss of knowledge from generation to generation.

I would say that a primary reason that Judo, wrestling, and boxing have seemed to have withstood the test of time better is the emphasis on strong fundamentals. There are a lot more people qualified to teach fundamentals as a result.

However, using Ki Aikido as an example... Tohei sensei had very strong Aikido and fundamentals. It is possible that because he went in a "different" direction, he went into things that were too complex for the vast majority of students to really understand. Remember that these things have been shown to work under pressure and testing, but in many cases with students, they work because the students have preconceived ideas of what to expect (almost like mass hypnosis or a cult mentality). Those that can demonstrate on "unwilling non-believers" are very few. What I'm saying is that I am a skeptic, but I do believe there is something to things such as Ki... the issue is that there are a lot of "pretenders" out there and because they isolate the students, they get away with passing on an inferior product... that's false advertising.

 

Was this a month ago? Because an old high school from of mine who practices BJJ got like 1 or 2 gold medals there recently.

Nope, was referring to all TMAs including Ju-jutsu.

 

There's a difference between a crushing knee on belly, and just shoving your knee deep into the solar plexis, personally having my shin the entire way across into the floating ribs, and using a prybar to lift their head and roll my shin through their diaphagm is my favorite KOB. from what I've seen Mauricio taught the knee all the way across as a basic.

http://slideyfoot.wordpress.com/category/mauricio-gomes/

 

Oh, it definitely is. You can't even attack the legs in judo anymore, so some of Kano's really big innovations (like bringing in the firemans carry from western wrestling into Ju Jitsu) are now illegal. So are double legs, single legs. The IJF are a joke.

 

Heh fair play...when I did knee on I wasn't that picky about where I put mine.
I always found putting my knee too far over made me more vulnerable to being rolled over.

 

agreed. judo's a great art, but the sport rules are failing it. and something like bjj is capturing the grappling public's imagination way more than judo is now days. it's almost as if gi and no-gi jiujitsu competitions are just absorbing judo and wrestling, making both look inferior. maybe inferior's not the right word, because ibjjf jiujitsu competitions, for instance, allow wrestling and judo techniques.

 

Its something I've really been working on recently, it fits in so well with top kimura attacks.

To stop getting rolled you need to keep your head on your side of their center line, often people lean over more when there chasing the far arm, when they push on your knee, so the farther accross the knee is, the bigger the hole is so the less you lean across.

 

I love judo, but the rule changes are hampering its use fullness.