Hi, Aimed mainly at the Jiu Jitsu crowd but would appreciate feedback from other styles; Do you train certain techniques that take advantage of the Gi by modifying them to work without the Gi ? What is the split in your training, if any with the Gi and without the Gi ? Thanks
i don't do any training with the gi. certain gi techniques might be useful on someone with regular clothing, but i figure it's best to focus on techniques which can be used no matter what the opponent is wearing. if it can be done on a sweaty man with no shirt, it can be done on anyone
For your BJJ/Judo game, training initially with the gi will create a very good defensive base, because your opponent can get leverage just about anywhere. But.... randori/rolling with the gi tends to be a slower paced game than no-gi, demanding a higher degree of conditioning and faster reflexes. So, IMHO learn initially with the gi to get a good defensive base, then move on to training no-gi also. The split of training would be determined by what you are training for.
Back in my BJJ training, we did both. Well, actually, there was one night where we wore a gi and practiced BJJ, and then another night where we didn't wear a gi and practiced Greco Roman wrestling. A lot of the time though in the Greco class, we took techniques from the BJJ class (Since it was mainly the same people) and adapted them to work without a gi. It was really a cool experience and lots of fun.
We train no gi, though my instructor says we train both. I just haven't been there long enough to see the gi training.
I train predominantly in karate and have abandoned the wearing of a gi during practice as it serves no purpose. We generally wear trackies and a tee. I've also started submission wrestling which doesn't require a gi. However I have also started Judo for which we do wear a gi this allows us to practice the judo techniques as they should be done. When we train the judo stuff in regular lessons we adapt them to work without a gi.
If you can collar-choke somebody with a gi, you can choke somebody by the collar of his polo shirt. Man, even wife-beater t-shirt can tolerate a lot of pulling and twisting before ripping off. I guess it all depends of what are the goals of training. I've only done gi training, but from what I've heard gi helps you train defense and escapes (it's harder to escape with a gi), but with no-gi you have to train in offense without the friction that the gi provides (it's harder to pull an armbar on a semi-naked, slippery opponent.) Furthermore, gi training develops your grip a lot more. From a strictly self-defense point of view, short term, gi training would give the best bang for each buck and hour invested. Chances are that if you have to defend yourself (God forbid), and even worse, the situation makes the ground unavoidable (God forbid even more), most likely your opponent will be fully clothed. I'm quoting this man, Marcelo Garcia from another location. He basically says he trains 80% gi and 20% no gi. If a man of his caliber goes that way, I would imagine there are good reasons in doing so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFHoykw4hI&search=marcelo garcia
At straight blast by any chance? Both gi and no gi training is essential. If you ignore one or the other, your overall game will suffer. See above post
You can use the techniques that use a Gi without one; you simply have to pinch the nipples very hard.
If you want to compete no-gi, train no-gi. I'm not entirely sure if my Judo gi game has helped me no-gi submission wrestler game at all, because really the main difference between the two is gripping. You don't learn how to hook or whizzer, deal with sweat, pummel, or gain more familiarity with no-gi submissions when training with the dogi. I don't see how it makes anyone have a more defensive, solid basis than starting no-gi. To be honest, the added grips, slower game, less sweat, etc. I think will only hurt your no-gi game starting out. When you start something you want to delve into it as much as you can to gain as much as you can, to gain the nuances of the sport. If I want to play tennis, I don't start with racquetball simply because it will help me familiarise myself with a racquet. Similarly, if I want to fight in Muay Thai, I don't train kickboxing, because they're different games. I think training with the gi, forcing the slow and methodical play, is harmful for someone who wants to do no-gi, where the pace is significantly higher. Pacing should be one of the earliest things anyone learns about a sport, and if you're making someone experience the wrong pacing then you hurt their initial growth. If you want to ease them into no-gi, a better way is to train no-gi at a slower pace, that way they have the time to see and start understanding what's happening to them in the context of what they'll be competing in. I know that training in a gi has hurt me everytime I have trained without one, because my Judo game, both standing and on the ground is so dependent on superior gripping, when I transfer to no-gi I am sometimes at a loss for what to do. If I trained no-gi more, this would probably stop being a problem, but I don't so I can confidently say my gi work has harmed my no-gi. The only exception is with leglocks, which I learned in Sambo and make no use of the gi.
Absolutely agree with this 100%. Training initially with the gi provides a foundation of control & technique that training without the gi doesn't. Try escaping scarf hold or side control while you are wearing a gi and you have to make sure your technique and positioning is very precise...without a gi you can rely a LOT on simple sweat and slipping without the technical precision. I'm not saying that training without a gi is inferior at all (as I do both) just that the gi work gives you better foundation for control and positioning. The other way to look at this discussion is that every technique you learn without a gi can be easily done whether you are wearing a gi, clothing or a rubber wetsuit! however, the same can't be said the other way round as certain gi techniques cannot always be adapted to a no-gi situation. Now to me that means you are missing out on a specific part of training. The only time this hinders the switch to no-gi is as Liao has mentioned, where use of the gi is relied on to an extreme extent (as with many judoka) and I think you are correct in saying that if you trained no-gi more it would cease being a problem. Otherwise, use the gi as a training aid (even if you don't use specific "gi techniques"). You could use any clothing in much the same way (it's just that the gi is designed better for use) Keep the pace slow and learn the movement/positioning etc and then when you take the gi off you'll find you simply whizz around. Gi training has never harmed my no-gi work - as long as you appreciate the technical differences and how to change the grips for control. The majority of successful submission artists in MMA have come from a gi background and I beleive that is due to the control, technique & positioning they have learnt.
I look at it in the same way as a cyclist or swimmer will use resistance in their training...even to the extent of using bodyhair to reduce their streamlining. Once the base training is done, and before competition they shave their bodies, increasing the streamlining of their bodies and decreasing resistance. Therefore the increase in pace actually assists their game & I beleive that if the gi is used properly the same theory can apply.
wow..the world is ending...this is the first time i dont agree with you. i cna quite theroize why....but at my school some guys split time ...with gi and without...and some guys were just without.... well the guys who did both got better quicker...so a switched to doing both also some no gi guys are poor with the gi but the NONE of the gi guys are bad no gi
Hahah, it's just been my experience. But, I'm not a jiujitsu person, I'm Judo, so my training on the gi is much more hyper focused than with BJJ people. Maybe if I trained with a gi, I'd see the improvement, I just haven't experienced it and I'm not sure how it helps more than training exclusively no-gi.
