I'm very much of an old school mentality where martial arts in concerned and get headaches at times trying to wrap my head around some of the "new" ideas. One thing has me vapor locking totally. Is there ever a valid reason to promote from say 3rd Dan to 4th in seven months?
This is a matter of opinion. There are many reasons why this could happen. One reason is that a person could have been a 2nd Dan for 10 years, still practicing but seperated from his instructor, joined a new org or school, then promoted several degrees quickly. Skill level is another reason. Historically, progression through Dan grades was not as linear as today. Some Japanese Karateka commonly skipped entire grades if the skill level was there.
Hmmm... I know this kind of thing happened pretty frequently in the "old days" and still goes on now but I like to think that in this age of the Internet, people tend to be more hesitant to do so. I'd like to think most of the federations out there tend to stick much more closely to 'time in grade' suggestions than they used to. I have been used to either "years=the next dan grade" between black belt promotions or "years = the current dan grade" between promotions. So, 3rd dan to 4th dan should normally require a minimum of 3-4 years before eligibility. The only way I could see people "legitimately" skipping ahead quicker would be in the case (mentioned above) where a person has trained and done what they are supposed (and grown) but haven't had the chance to test, e.g. a 2nd dan who trains frequently and runs classes and has improved greatly but hasn't tested in 6 years might be tested for 3rd and then shortly thereafter for 4th. Personally, I don't like the idea but I guess I can see the rationale. I know that if we had a 2nd dan with 6 years time in grade (and good work ethic, etc), we'd test them ASAP for 3rd, but then they would have to wait 3 years for eligibility for 4th. Have you heard any rationale behind the promotion in this case you mention?
Actually, rank wasn't such a set thing 'in the old days' and people often got promoted to whatever rank whenever the teacher wanted. Often ranks were skipped when appropriate to skill, experience, or involvement in the dojo. That being said, today there is typically a minimum amount of training time...albeit those minimums are pretty small in a lot of organizations, I think, because of certain situations like someone who trains in spurts (for whatever reason) and has spent a lot of time in one rank. For example, I was a shodan for many years and, after my nidan test, my teacher wanted me to test for sandan the following year when I got back from a deployment to Afghanistan. Unfortunately I didn't get much mat time in that year and my skills atrophied, but the idea is still the same (obviously I didn't test right when I got back). For me, in regard to promoting in physical tests, I feel like consistency, amount and quality of training is more important than length of training. Then, of course, there's the difference between physical tests and the higher tests which are more presented for development of the art and as a teacher...I feel that is a different circumstance as far as time in grade is concerned.
Thank you for the replies. I can see the logic in rapid advancement of an exceptional student. It just seemed odd to me that a person just promoted to 3rd would then test so soon. And no, no rationale has been given.
Hello all, Choi Dojunim ranked people pretty quickly in some cases, according to what I understand, rank was based on a variety of factors, skill, training time, a demonstration that a person would stick to training, and geography. Being from, or living in certain parts of Korea, away from Daegu meant rank would stop at a certain level. It also meant that for many, they would never learn the whole syllabus as skills were tested through 7th Dan, and many never got past 6th. It is also relevant to note that Choi Dojunim often gave rank that he wanted someone to "grow" into with age and training. I have seen this used frequently. In addition, I have told often that rank as a number had little to do with mastery - I have been told a 2nd Dan could be a master, where a 4th Dan might not be. So, I'd judge where the rank came from, and where that persons rank came from, this is obviously not including a persons skill or ability to transmit skill to another.
I'm going to take a different direction here, why should the instructor be required to tell the class why he's promoting an individual in a short time. I don't think there's any reason he's required to explain himself. One of the schools I used to train at had the chief instructor go away for a weekend seminar and went from 5th dan to 8th dan. No explanation was given as to why he did this. While I can see how the rest of the students might get a bit peeved, there's just no requirement for the chief instructor/school owner to explain himself even if it might cause problems.
Kevin I always enjoy your posts, you have a knack for transporting one there, if you know what I mean. Do you have a book out?
Thank you for the compliment, I just try where I can to inform people about Hapkido....but there is a work coming eventually....
Hey Kwaj - nice to "see" you again. I can see your point and can agree with it from that perspective. On the other hand though, I've seen the damage to a school/federation's image by promoting people willy-nilly without sticking to time-in-grade or even open testings. Students who have "bought-in" to the art often want to see the image and repuation upheld. In the case you mentioned, promoting someone from 5th to 8th is a pretty big jump. The chief instructor is well within his/her rights to say "nothing" but if they are going to endorse such a big jump, wouldn't it make sense to tell the other students "why"? Instead of keeping it quiet, if this person deserves it, make it public even if just to cut off the whining from others. If the chief instructor feels it's legit - yell it loud and proud! It's a great honor and if everyone on the mat doesn't realize it's deserved, then someone should probably explain it. We've had a few situations like this at our school (nothing that disparate though). We've had guys who've missed testings for various reasons but kept up with their training and we've done double-promotions (color belts). We've had a couple guys enter our system that didn't grade through all of the color belts for various reasons (deployments, etc) but who were pre-tested and found "ready" to test for 1st dan. After 1st dan, we've always pretty well stuck to "time in grade" as a minimum. Just to add to that thought, just becuase someone has the "time" in doesn't mean they should test either. That's just one requirement - they have to know the curriculum, attend class regularly, assist in class if needed, and be "ready" proficiency wise. Even though I know some people might be "ready" before their "time in grade" comes up, I don't have a problem with a minimum time in grade , it allows students to mature in a grade. I don't understand why people feel the need to "hurry" to the next dan grade - what good will it do you?
