Thread Split: Chinese terminology, marketing & compliant demonstrations

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by El Medico, Apr 30, 2020.

  1. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Any particular reason he chose to call this Mind Boxing which to myself and others familiar w/CMAs automatically translates to I Ch'uan? Seems an odd choice for a name.
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Probably a marketing ploy I'm not sure if his lineage includes I chuan as the website is heavily focused on typical American self help advertising but light on lineage, unless I'm missing something
    I suspect the audience aimed at is more your self help, new age lot than those who would know what mind boxing actually is in the Chinese martial community
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  3. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Never heard Han or anyone mention I Ch'uan in relation to him. I just thought it was an odd choice esp. w/his CMA background
  4. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Looks like we won't get an answer to this, for someone who liked to question others backgrounds during arguements Simon was awfully sensitive when any question was asked towards him or his teachers, shame
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Chinese names have never been an exacting thing. Different styles have forms with the same name that are very different, for example. Choy Li Fut has a series of forms named Bagua/ Pa Kua. It is based on the footwork pattern. Doesn't mean that Choy Li Fut or Sifu's who teach it are claiming Bagua lineage or forms in our style. Also, completely different styles have completely different forms with the same name. CLF has a form with the same name as a far more widely known Hung Gar form. Doesn't mean CLF is claiming Hung Gar lineage or influence within it. Let's not pretend they are an exact science. They never have been.

    Eh, I don't get critiques on martial art's instructors/ schools for using modern marketing to survive doing what they love to make a living. We don't live in an era where one can be successful without web sites, and modern appeal mixed in. To me, is the quality good? It could be that I feel this way because my lineage were, I think, some of the earlier pioneers of things like making video's or having a worldwide Federation in CMA's. And I think my GM has taken critique's for it over the years.

    People have this noble idea of martial arts instructors doing this solely out of the goodness of their heart, but not having the same bills to pay we all do, seems like an outmoded way of thinking. I mean, it is nice if someone wants to spend their time and energy for little or no money, but it shouldn't be expected. And people shouldn't be critiqued for wanting to make a living out of teaching what they know.

    Unless he actually claimed I Ch'uan lineage, which I don't believe he ever has, this is not a valid criticism. Someone else asking about a name similarity and then you blaming him for not having a background that wasn't claimed in the first place is reaching to be negative IMO. It is a straw man argument.

    I think anyone who offered things they normally charged for for free were doing a service to the MA community during this crisis. And should be commended for it. :)

    Personally, I watched a footwork lesson by this Sifu and it was excellent. I have no connection or interest in his style of martial arts overall. Jeet Kune Do just doesn't interest me as a style I want to learn. I could swear I have seen lots of stuff about lineage too. Pretty out in the open Jeet Kune Do lineage. My main critique is that some people down from his lineage complain about videos with compliant techniques in other instructors, but seem totally ok with his demonstrations with semi compliant partners. But a discussion of that in more detail should be for another thread.

    Mod Note: If this side conversation takes on a life of it's own, I am probably going to split it to another thread. Reason being that I want people to come to this thread and have resources available quickly to train in a COVID restricted world, without having to wade through side discussions about anything. So, just a heads up ahead of time.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  6. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Having a form called Bagua within your style is one thing,calling what you do eight Trigram boxing is quite another,

    Forms having similar names is one thing and quite common, seen in hung gar, back mei etc but calling what you do the English translation of the Chinese name of a well known art is a bit different and quite something else, it would be akin to calling your new art the grand ultimate fist simply because everytime someone typed tai chi in to google you turned up on their search engine.

    Nothing wrong with marketing if you are their to make money go for it, I didn't say it was good or bad simply said it's probably why he did it in the first place.

    It's not claiming anything but it's hinting heavily because if you searched I chuan or the English translation guess who is going to turn up on your Google search ??

    JKD is well known for its contradictions such as calling other arts out for being flowery and useless whilst having a love affair with silat and other esoteric arts even more flowery and useless than wing chun at times lol

    I've yet to see anything from Singh that wasn't compliant or powerless or had a partner feeding him or going slower than him to make him look good so can't really judge him on anything he has put out, and as you say strangely whilst in others this is called out by some by him it's not
  7. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Yiquan 意拳 Mind Boxing

    Dachengquan 大成拳 Great Achievement Boxing
  8. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod Note: I am moving some side discussions from the Free online training thread to here.

    I did this because it is important to keep that thread as primarily a resource thread for people looking for options to train in a COVID-19 world. I thought it important that people find those links without having to wade through side discussions.

    But I also didn't want to squish valid discussion of topics that came up. So, here they are.
  9. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Well,the "Quote" button isn't showing up.So in reply to icefield's

    "Having a form called Bagua within your style is one thing,calling what you do eight Trigram boxing is quite another,"

    Yes,quite another thing,indeed.

    " silat and other esoteric arts even more flowery and useless than wing chun at times lol"

    I can only state that the Serak I was exposed to,which is one of Guro Inosanto's main studies and influences, wasn't flowery,just nasty like T'ai Chi.

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