Thinking about Aikido

To be fair, you could make that same point about BJJ and Judo (in fact, probably most combat sports).

On a side point, the British Aikido Squad is world class and has some ferocious competitors (my old coach use to be on the squad).

 

Just a small visual guide, here is some Toshu (empty hand) randori from Tomiki Aikido (the competitive form of Aikido):




[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQQlOEnSFI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQQlOEnSFI[/ame]

 

Waki gatame is legal, taking someone down from standing with or directly into waki gatame is illegal.

 

That's precisely how I took a lot of people down when I trained jjj

 

Then your training partners are lucky to still have functioning elbows.

 

yeah exactly, just to be clear: not questioning his ability in my posts just interested in his reasoning. As a high level aikidoka his perception of the art and its utility is interesting. My opinion was that the physical skills and principles of Aikido should be valid across contexts if they are valid at all not that he can't fight. I agree, if the art is principles based then what is inhibiting the implementation of those principles and by extension the techniques which embody them?

 

I'm not so sure about the whole "it's the practitioner, not the art" thing.

Different arts expose you to different training experiences. It doesn't matter how much you study an art, without exposure to unscripted pressure you will never get much better at dealing with unscripted pressure (in fact, false confidence might even make you worse at dealing with it).

That BJJ BB made wrist-locks work for him because he joined a training regimen that allowed him to experiment with them under unscripted pressure, IMO.

 

IMHO if your art doesn't have a subset of techniques and tactics you can pressure test in an MMA type environment I'd wonder what the hell it does include.
You can drill one technique in an MMA "way".

 

well, you'll be able to roll quite well. so there's that.

 

And walk on your knees. Don't forget that.

 

I've always thought of it as analogous to some evolutionary processes. When an organism, like a fish, inhabits a cave it experiences a release on selection for vision. Non-pressure-testing martial arts strike me as a similar new ecology. The value of a technique is not measured in how well it aids a competitor, but in how well it attracts students.

 

Exactly.

But, just because you train under pressure in one context, that doesn't mean that there is automatic crossover to any other context.

 

I dont disagree - that's why I said to a point. "To a point" works both ways imo. I think comparing arts only go so far without taking into account the skills of the two guys if we're talking about a specific confrontation. Comparisons can't be done in a vacuum. Yes, I'd recommend certain arts overs others, that said I'd rather be a terrific TKD guy with lethal headkicks than a very poop bjjer, just like I'd probably rather be a non martial artist with world class cardio than someone who trains, is overweight and tanks after a minute. In other situation, If the situation lends itself to it, I'd rather be Usain Bolt than Anderson Silva. Too many factors and possible contexts to give a straight answer IMO.

That said, regarding the bjj/aikido bb I know, he told that's when he "realized that bjj was aikido on the ground" (his words not mine) that his game took off -for whatever it's worth. He might have trained wristlock realitically before he even started bjj - I can't answer that for sure.

 

Its not the art thats effective but the person using it. Does every martial art work, No. But Aikido has taught me a lot. Ive done a few different Martial Arts and it ALL depends on the school you attend. There are a lot of Aikido schools that treat it more like a ballet or some fictional nonsense, or spiritual garbage where I touch you with my finger and you go flying thru the air. There are some good Aikido schools out there but you will need to go and search them out. Take a weeks worth of classes, research the teacher and possible ask them questions. I have trained with some Aikido teachers that I would never mess with by any stretch of the imagination. This is an art you will be able to do for the rest of you life, well into your 80's as long as you train. Some of the students in my school are 60+ and they take extremely good Ukemi and throw just as hard. Oh, when you go watch the school. Especially watch the seniors and see how they train too. See if they are realy throwing people of the same rank and how they are throwing them. Does it look realistic? Just because someone has nice Ukemi doesnt mean they arent being thrown hard.

 

Aikido or Muay Thai

I have not been here in awhile. Last time I posted I was training in Shotokan Karate. Since then I had taken a break from martial arts because of lack of time. Also since then the school I was studying at has closed.

I'm looking to get back into martial arts in a few weeks now that I have more time to spare. I'm looking at Aikido and Muay Thai.

I have tendonitis in both of my wrists, and bad lower back and a weak left knee. I'm also a professional musician so I have to be careful when it comes to injuries so as to not effect my drumming career.

What I'm looking for most in a martial art is a style that teaches one how to fight well if need be in a street situation and also something that is good for exercise and that I can do long term. I also need a style that I can practice solo as much as possible so I can still train by myself when I'm on the road touring with my band's.

What do you all think is the better fit for what I'm looking for? Aikido or Muay Thai? I'm also open to other style suggestions. Thanks!

 

They're very, very different martial arts, muay thai is probably more reliable about getting you in fighting shape. It's also very physically demanding, but then, so is fighting.

 

Honestly I'd steer well clear of Aikido. It teaches a LOT of wrist locks that may aggravate your wrists (I broke my right wrist years ago and still have to take it easy with locks on that wrist). It also teaches a lot of breakfalls that may aggravate your back.
It's also...with the best will in the world and suitable caveats on clubs can vary, instructors and all that....not the generally street effective without a lot of context and adaptation.

With Thai you can wrap your wrists to protect them and hopefully take it easy on your back (although all arts are a bit tough on backs to be fair). It's also a pretty rough and ready style and one of the better arts to adapt to being effective in reality.

 

I think Muay Thai is a clear winner for you out of the two.

Aikido has a fairly high rate of injury [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1725005/pdf/v039p00029.pdf], plus wrist locks and throws are a big part of training, and sitting cross-legged might not be good for your knee.

In Muay Thai your hands will be protected with gloves, if you don't compete your chances of injury shouldn't be too bad as long as you take it easy and the gym allows you to work around any ailments.

As Simon says ( ), fighting is only a small part of self-defence, but in terms of preparing you for real violence, Muay Thai is a clear winner in that regard also.

I still agree with Simon that you should try both and decide for yourself though. What other arts are available in your area?

[EDIT: Smitty beat me to it!]

 

I tell you what...if you're already a drummer you should try filipino martial arts. I bet you'd pick up, stickfighting, siniwali and heaven 6 really quickly.