The Other Side of SILAT

Discussion in 'Silat' started by IndraMuda, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member


    Hi All,

    I love to learn your views!

    Lots have been said by various “ Guru-Guru Silat “ that the practicing of SILAT will ultimately cultivate positive moral, conduct and daily actions. Perhaps this is the highest or ultimate goal to be aimed at? What is the knowledge underlying it?

    IF it is TRUE is it not Silat is the solution to the current/ or some of the Social Evils?
  2. Silk Road

    Silk Road New Member

    Salaam Indra Mudra,

    Very thought provoking post. I just don't know if I understand your last question: "What is the knowledge underlying it?" There's a lot I could say here, so please clarify that point whilst I gather my thoughts...

  3. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Salam to you Silk Road and others,

    TQ for your response and interest in the subject.

    What is the knowledge underlying it? By this question I meant the following:

    Which aspect of SILAT (physical and spiritual / inner trainning) that would help to cultivate / develop / manifest such SELF inner qualities [ Moral, Conduct ,daily actions / decisions etc ] and what is the theory (Science and Religious?), in brief, that make such realisation?

    Hope it clarifies to start the “ball rolling”!
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2006
  4. wuzhong78

    wuzhong78 New Member


    Silat as well as Kungfu which is my prime MA. Each style has it characteristic. its characteristic usually adapted to practitioner personality. Further, a Guru or Sifu in some family type of school consider as a father for his students. A good teacher will plant the good morality and wisdom to his students.

    In my kungfu clan, my sifu has changed my tashi (big brother) a hard drunkard man and lazy changed into full dicipline and tough guy. Try to be honest and objective, i'm not trying to evaluate myself and tell about my changes.

    Depends to your own decision to pick up an art. whether you learn it for kicking ass or bully someone or to make changes to yourself (filosophy, dicipline, etc etc etc). the evil one usually get MA partially, just techniques to harm people but not MA as an integrated system.

    Let's say, what military does to MA? they won't learning spiritual aspect and philosopy.. they need fast learning for MA technical development as their last weapon. They just learn it partially not whole system....

    Another example, a boy get bully by stronger one. he gets a MA class and learn some fighting techniques to kicking ass. He can beat the opponent when sparring and back to school to revenge...

    MA to train yourself... what train? depending you MA characteristic ... and it will applied to your daily activity if you would. How Taichi practice your patience, how Baji train my agressiveness also silat Kwitang.

    Cheers guys! (^,^)/"
  5. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    There are all sorts of good things that can make a person into a better citizen and human being. Silat is one of them. It's more the teacher than the particular practice methinks.
  6. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    I got into it after i got put in hospital for 3 weeks by 6 of my so-called mates, after someone started a rumour about me that wasnt true.

    I vowed when I woke up it would never happen again, and I see silat as the key to that.It has improved my confidence, fitness, and overall mental well being.
  7. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I think that there are many roads one could take to improve oneself and Silat is just one of those roads. Ultimately everyone will choose a road to walk which takes there liking and agrees with their ideals but in the end many of those roads lead to the same destination. You could take the road of Martial arts, Yoga, meditation etc etc but if you have a good hart you will find your way, perhaps your own unique way. Some may find a guide who will point the way through the woods and others find their own way through.
  8. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi All,

    Great views: Wuzhong, Tellner, Sgt Major, Narrue & Silk Road. Being new member in this forum, I appreciate your friendly responses and willingness to share your personal experiences and knowledge. Hope others would join in the discussion to.

    YES, I absolutely concur with all of your views that Silat is one of the contributor / path towards achieving one’s ideal or helping to evade, if not all, some of the social evils.

    What about the philosophical view that: “Morality and good conduct are not possible without knowledge. The contents, sources and conditions of knowledge must, therefore, be understood in detail”.

    In line with the said philosophical conclusion, what kind of traditional ethical system (theoretical and practical) adopted by current Guru-Guru Silat, in particular, to substantiate their claimed that the learning (besides jurus, punching, kicking, blocking, grappling, music, seni etc) would help the pesilat to reach their ideal? OR, such knowledge failed to be acquired by most of the current Gurus (with due respect)!

    “Know thyself” has been also the cry of many philosophers and Guru-Guru Silat amongst the “ancients” as well as amongst the modern: is this knowledge has got anything to do with it?
  9. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi All,

    May I humbly share this experience and look forward for your thoughts:

    I remembered during my childhood days my late father used to remind me: that “SPEED” in all human actions: offences and defenses ( specifically in physical Silat) were not based on muscles, or physical techniques but more on the purity of the “HEART”. He went on to elaborate: that all human actions are full with hesitations and deliberations due to our INTELLECT / REASON ( Akal ) paused in making judgement. This is the secret of true knowledge of “speed” in Silat referred to, by him, as faster than a “blink of eyes”.

    My sharing of the above is to reiterate that there are more than just physical techniques in Silat. There is hidden knowledge associated to it.
  10. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    Like instinct. We turn off the conscious mind, and just 'move' - that way there is no delay between the brain function, and the action.
  11. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    The old saying "His strength is as the strength of ten because his heart is pure" is true. A big secret is that it doesn't really matter what it's purely full of. It's best if what fills the soul is something good like the Love of G-d or passion for excellence. But it works pretty much as well if it's greed, hatred or lust. Good martial arts, which certainly includes Silat, has training methods which can cultivate that purity of intention and purpose. It makes a person much more dangerous. This is one of the reasons why the traditional guru-murid relationship includes careful vetting and moral instruction.
  12. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Sgt Major and Others,

    Qoute: SgtMajor

    Like instinct. We turn off the conscious mind, and just 'move' - that way there is no delay between the brain function, and the action.

    What guided instinct?
    What is conscious mind?
    What initiate a move or how does a man action is activated and formed in the first place?
    No delay between the brain function, and the action? Human knowledge is imperfect unlike God’s knowledge is perfect and all inclusive.

    Under such circumstances, how do you categorize your move / action:

    a- Natural action (al-fi’l at-tabi’i) ?;
    b- Intentional action (al-fi’l al-iradi) ? or ;
    c- Voluntary action (al-fi’l-al-ikhtiari) ?

    If you have no objection, would you care to share your knowledge? I apologize if I sounded naïve!
  13. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Did you by any chance post as IBA in a few other silat forums?

  14. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Wali and Others,

    IBA is the grandson of IndraMuda and I am the mid-person :) Hope they are not infringing any “in-house rules” or disrespect anybody. If IBA did, I will definitely punish him with few strokes of “rotan”. However, I couldn’t do the same to my senior! I would be “rotan” by him instead.
  15. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hi IndraMuda,

    Not at all. IBA was always very respectful in his posts. I asked because the writing style between both of you is practically identical, and the web is a small place, so was curious.

    He should be safe from the "rotan" for now! :)

  16. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    I'm not sure I 100% understand the questions :eek: but I'll do my best.

    What guided instinct?

    By instinct I mean no thought. My brain reacts to a percieved intention, movement, threat, and by my brain reacting, my body is already moving, there is no thinking about it, except for the microseconds it takes the electronic pulses to be understood by the muscles. To think is to stall, and to stall is to get hit.

    What is conscious mind?

    This one I think is best left to the philosophers, but to me it is the 'thinking' level on the brain. It is this part that we use most in our day to day activities, where decisions can be rationalised, and looked at from different angles before a conclusion is required. Without it, we would be mere animals.

    What initiate a move or how does a man action is activated and formed in the first place?

    This is where I start to get lost. Do you mean How is an action caused, or started? I believe the root of this is the sub concious, the level below where we 'feel' things faster than our brain can process them normally. Physically, I believe the actions originate from the core, in your mid-section, where it can be driven to any part of the body with eqaul speed.

    No delay between the brain function, and the action? Human knowledge is imperfect unlike God’s knowledge is perfect and all inclusive.

    This one would require the belief in a perfect god, and I do not carry that belief.

    Natural actions - Breathing, blinking, heart beat etc - These are carried out as basic functions. They start at birth, and they stop at death, there is no human interferance in keeping these going (unless they need re-started) They are cycles that continually repeat themselves, and do not need prompting of any description

    Intentional actions - Movement, walking, talking, eating etc - These all require a pro-active starting. You will never just start walking without some form of thought process telling you to do so. This is the realm of the concious mind where decisions are made in light of a base of information.

    Voluntary actions - stretching when tired, eye movements, etc - these are closer to instinctive actions, they require minimal thought, and the thoughts are processed so fast as to often feel like instinct. Like licking your lips when they feel dry, there is no real 'thought' but the body automatically realises the dryness, and already knows a way to correct this, so it does, with minimal processing.

    I hope this has helped explain what I mean, at least a little bit anyway :D
  17. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Sgt Major and Others,

    TQ for openness in your knowledge. I must say you are a “sport”! Reciprocating your openness and willingness to share, followings are my understanding on the subject matter. I am sorry I couldn’t go further than the hereunder stated as it will call for spiritual / religious knowledge which I am very sure will upset this long standing forum.

    Natural action = unaffected by human will
    Intentional action = not a blind responses but are conscious processes (volition)
    The natural as well as the intentional actions are both involuntary and necessary. The different between the two is that the intentional action is preceded by perception and knowledge, while in the natural action perception of the object is not there

    Voluntary action = which an alternative is possible and intellect / reason makes a choice. In this respect thing presented to mind are of two types:

    1- Those which our introspection (gerak hati) or observation (penghayatan) pronounces without deliberation as agreeable or disagreeable. No alternative is presented to the mind. Though this action happened with intention, yet the intention was without the hesitation or deliberation.

    2- Those which our reason hesitates or is suspended until we know whether the action which is to be executed is agreeable or not and we need deliberation until the intellect decided in favor of acceptance or rejection. Here an alternative is presented to the mind. It is in this category that most of our actions fall into and that inclusive all forms of martial arts / modern silat physical actions.
  18. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    If your knowledge is presented in an understandable, and open minded/tolerant way, there will be no problems with it, I assure you. I would like to continue sharing ideas with you. If only I could understand more fully your ideas :D
  19. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Tellner and Others,

    Good martial art, which certainly includes Silat, has training methods which can cultivate that purity of intention and purpose. It makes a person much more dangerous.

    I respect what ever your spiritual faith.

    May I seek your thoughts / knowledge on the meaning: “purity of intention and purpose and it ultimate goal?” What is its relationship within the context of martial art or silat – perhaps: speed, power, or so called “super natural power”? Subsequently what it really means by: It makes a person much more dangerous.

    Hope you do not mine sharing for the awareness of the community!


    TQ for saving me ! :Angel:

    Sgt Major:

    I will progress slowly towards it. Please do not hesitate to check me if I off track!

    TQ All.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2006
  20. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    purity of intention and purpose. It makes a person much more dangerous”

    Hmm..dificult to know what was meant by this as it could be interpreted in several ways.

    First of all there is a difference between moving from the outside and being moved from the inside.

    I remember we used to have a steel tube set in the ground outside and it was wrapped in several layers of rubber sheet. I used to practice striking this and doing all kinds of techniques on it. One day I remember being perhaps 3 meters away from this object and I went to strike it, one second I was standing 3 meters away and the next I was standing right next to it. Funny thing was this happened in literally a blink of an eye, my teacher who was watching out the window stood there with his mouth wide open like he had just seen a ghost. He behaved very strangely towards me for some time after that. I guess he must have been kind of spooked by it.
    I was shocked when it happened. I don’t remember even moving my legs but what I do remember is how the movement felt different then simply jumping. I slipped just over the surface of the ground as if it was coated with a layer of ice or something slippery. Big difference was I moved from the inside not the outside, very difficult to describe the feeling.
    I tried to do it again but I could not, the difference was in my state of mind I think.
    I would describe that action as a moment when I had purity of mind and purpose and it resulted it rapid movement and yes if you could do it all the time you would be very dangerous :D

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