The Lost Wing Chun Set (Jong Kuen)

Before I was accepted as a student by Matthias (Eight Pattern Wing Chun), I have been learning WingTsun (EWTO, Kernspecht, Leung Ting) for some years. We practiced three hand-sets (Siu Nim Tau, Cham Kiu and Biu Ji) like most wing chun lineages. Since I was accepted as a student by Matthias I learned a fourth hand-set (Jong Kuen). I know that there is a set with this name in Siu Lam Weng Chun and in the Tang Family (and probably some other lineages). But this is a different set (it is similar in some parts but it has more steps and repetitions).

I also know that Leung Ting knows the set (from Fok Chiu Sifu), he has put it in his book Roots of Wing Chun and in the same time he has added some very similar movements to his biu ji set.

There is an entry on WingChunPedia dot org stating that this is indeed a traditional wing chun set. However, I have so far found no other lineage in which this version of the set is taught. Whoever posted the WingChunPedia article is speculating that Yip Man either didn't learn the set or integrated the movements into the weapon sets. (I doubt the latter, the most central patterns of the Jong Kuen are not to be found in any other set)

Unfortunately, there is no video of the complete set online yet, but the fourth section can be seen on Matthias' promotional video (the very first scene). The video was already posted, so I do not dare to post it again, but google will find it. It is also fully documented in Matthias' book "Eight Pattern Wing Chun Kuen" like all other sets. (see lulu, don't buy it at amazon, the pricing there is ridiculous)

Hopefully Matthias will do an instructional video about it later on (like his Siu Nim Tau video: http://www.you tube.com/watch?v=4-RQ8ywo9xA - remove the space between you and tube to see it)

I would like to know if anyone else out there knows this Wing Chun Jong Kuen set. We would like to find out more about it's history.

 

*sigh*

 

I don't typically like to bring up old news on new threads, but I really think this bears relevance to this topic. On your thread "The Biggest Macho Angst! (insert chinese characters here)" you stated the following:

But refused to post details about your training. Until you post details about your training, your credibility is in question, and I don't believe anyone can post on this highly important topic without questioning your credibility.

In fact, your already spotty reputation is now making me question the credibility of your teacher Matthias.

Would you mind posting some details about his training, like who he trained with, when, and how long? That would be great.

Many Thanks,
Yohan

 

Since Matthias only has a handful of students, posting any more details about my background would effectively nullify my anonymity, but thanks for the friendly reception anyways...

Also it is not my place to write about Matthias. If he wants you to know about him, he will put it on his website.

 

evasions noted

There are two reasons he has small numbers of students - he is that good or he is that bad

Off the videos we can all safely state it is because he is appallingly bad

 

Hold on, didn't we ban a guy called Matthias?

As for this thread, considering it's just like every thread you've posted, one would think you might have gotten the idea by now

 

Cheap Bio...

''..., Matthias Gruber, is a professional researcher, specialized in biomedical informatics and artificial intelligence.

He is studying Wing Chun (Yip Man 葉問 lineage) since 1991, mainly with Grandmaster Keith-R. Kernspecht's European WingTsun® Organization (EWTO). His Sifu is Master Mario Janisch, 6th level practitioner.

In Wing Chun, intensive private training is the most efficient way to progress. Furthermore, it is better to learn from more than just one source. For this reason the author only teaches a handful of students privately and focusses his own training accordingly.

The book "Eight Pattern Wing Chun" was written primarily to organize and to preserve the ideas and concepts the author has learned from his masters, and to integrate new ideas and exercises which were accumulated in many years of teaching, experimenting and researching.

Originally, the book was meant as a compendium or reference book for the author's private students, most of whom are Wing Chun teachers themselves. Therefore some of the chapters are targeted at an experienced audience. However, most of the book should also be suitable for beginners.

The book contains a complete formal curriculum (forms, sections), dozens of mottoes with interpretations and a deep insight into the theory and strategy of the system. (Note: the curriculum presented in the book is different from the EWTO / IWTA curriculum.)''

From his website

http://www.matthiasgruber.com/8pwc/index.php/en/the-author

LFD

 

If only we could somehow 'lose' the rest of wing chun as well, the martial world would be a happier place...

 

oh the horror of it all......that 10 minutes of my life i'll never get back
i wish youtube put up warnngs before some of their videos

 

This states that Matthias trains with Janisch, but then states that it is best to learn from more than one source. So does he learn from Keith or from numerous sources?

He states on numerous occaisions that the material in his book is from numerous sources, so it would be safe to conclude that Matthias claims to have learned from multiple sources. So, who are they, how long did he train with them?

 

Heck if I know....

Assume you are asking the question ''rhetorically''

Will leave that answer to someone (anyone) who actually knows more about him or has met him directly.

But you do make some very good points!

LFD

 

Also, this article states that he has been training Wing Chun for 20 years. How old is he. Honestly he doesn't look a day over 30.

You know he charges 57 bucks for this book? That's a hell of a lot of money to pay for a book by a master who, based on your representation (misanthropy) has questionable qualifications at best. The book has 58 pages. THAT'S A DOLLAR A BLOODY PAGE!

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/WingChun

Also the book is on google books for free so don't waste your money peoples.

http://books.google.com/books?id=1G...&resnum=7&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

The book has 255 pages and is worth every cent.
Besides Mario and Kernspecht, Matthias has learned from Robert Vent (one of the first kernspecht students) and his assistant Dietmar Gschließer. Furthermore, he has one or two contacts of which we are not allowed to speak. But if you are an insider in the wing chun world, you will probably be able to guess correctly after reading the book.

 

Voldemort?

 

Never trust anyone who says they can't reveal their identity.

Spy class 101, really.

 

I believe he would be talking about those instructors who are part of GSG9 and some other special police/military units. I remember asking about some photo's on one of the WT forums for the UK about why some of the instructors on a course that a member had attended had had there faces covered over. The reply was that they couldn't openly identify them because they were top level WT guys who were serving GSG9 members aswell. I thought it was a bit strange they even allowed them to take pictures/movies of them if they were members of such secret units but was told they were not allowed to discuss it.

 

Thats what I said on a thread in the ninjutsu forum and was shot down in flames because of it.

 

That's because ninjas HAVE to be secretive

 

I was talking about this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Voldemort

Because ot this quote:

"he has one or two contacts of which we are not allowed to speak."

But I suppose a joke's not a joke if you have to explain it...