The 'Legit' Rank B.S.

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by KGS BBS, Jul 26, 2006.

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  1. Matthew Barnes

    Matthew Barnes Valued Member

    All in good time.

    One of these days. I've got most of the end done, I'm trying to corrall some folks from the earlier and middle generations to get their input for the middle of the article. Sort of a 'compare and contrast' with their interpretations. Unfortunately I have a feeling it will have to wait until at least summer '07.
  2. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Shadow Conspiracy

    WOW! Jeez, were you born this profound, or was it something you aquired along the way Gary?

    Who knows, what evil LURKS in the hearts of men? Gary Knows BWAhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John You are something, LOL

    Bishop states.

    More rumors? Too bad you started your research 20 years too late, after many of the people who were there have passed on.
    Still throwing out lies Gary? Tell me what reliable source told you that Terry Lee was Kajukenbo? Who was his instructor? Funny, I didnt know we had any Kajukenbo instructors in Okinawa (where Lee trained) in the 60's-70's. Maybe the reason your still a white belt after 40 years is because you spend more time reading and listening to rumors then training. I think I read somewhere that you went out on a physc. retirement. Is that true, or just a rumor?

    Gary asks:

    As far as a reliable source I am not sure you would consider anyone but yourself and your BS as reliable. One of the reasons you ran into trouble over at SJK, saying things that were not true.
    You keep using words like lies, come on John, you are barking up the wrong tree. You are one of a kind that is for sure.

    As far as the thought about Terry Lee it might not be the most reliable source. I believe I read he was in the USMC at the time. Could have been in Hawaii while in the service also. Some of the people I thought were reliable are not as golden, why I am still searching.

    In fact as most know back in the time when Sijo established his art he borrowed quite a bit from Shorin Ryu. So it is a moot point.

    As far as my retirement goes you are wrong, and that what you are making up, is a total lie, but from you I would expect nothing less.
    You are constantly changing and giving reasons for it, and no one really cares that much, since they have been your victims for years.

    You pull this trash talk because you are not up to answering why you want to trash Mitose so bad. When his son is in your same organization. I have never seen anything like it John. Sad really.

    I'll just let our post's be read and decided by others. As far as 20 years late it is because I wanted to discuss it with you, but like I mentioned, you are one of a kind. Pathetic. Look it up :D

    Like I mentioned, I believe much more will come out at some date and time,
    maybe at the gathering or not.

    As far as my being a white belt after all these years, simple, why would I want to be someone like you are? ;)

    Dan you are Pathetic also. :)

    Regards, :)
  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Well keep up the good work and try to enjoy. Sometime's it is fun other times it is like slopping through the barn.
    So much mis-information and then it gets passed on further.

    One day it is coal and other days it is diamonds. I have something you might be interested in, I'll see if I can find it.

    Regards, :)
  5. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Actually, I never got into trouble over there. And I never claimed to be the source of any information. I gave information provided to me by people like Thomas Young, Richard Kim, Robert Trias, Adriano Emperado, and a few others. Even posted up some of their letters to me. Some members over there choose to disbelieve these eyewitnesses, and questioned their credibility and or memories. I recall the term used over there was "island boys", with a statement that they were unreliable and there stories changed all the time. Oh well.
    But I basically quit posting there because they tolorated trolls like you. Even after you've been banned from most of the other martial arts forums.
    And now your over there insulting Mills Crenshaw every chance you get. Again, someone who was there when the history of EPAK was happening. But his eyewitness accounts don't line up with the rumors you've heard, so he's the most recent target of your insults.

    So now it's just a thought? But I guess it was a good opportunity to follow me to this board and throw out a insult at Kajukenbo, by claiming this murderer was a Kajukenbo student. Sorry, he wasn't. Nope, he got his murder instructions from his instructor at the time, James Mitose. And what art is he still practicing and teaching? Kosho Ryu Kempo.

    So you now say Sijo Emperado borrowed quite a bit from shorin ryu? You want to name your source on this one? Or is it just a thought too? Feel free to name his shorin ryu instructor. Or any shorin ryu instructor who taught any of the Kajukenbo founders.

    So are you saying your psych problems are recent? Not the cause of your retirement?

    So what did I change? And who are my victims?

    I don't have to trash Mitose. He has trashed himself by his own conduct. It's all a matter of public record. In this thread I merely mentioned a excellent article that Matt Barnes wrote.
    Like I said, Mitose trashed himself, and it's public record for anyone to read. But there are people who are interested in knowing the true origin of his system. Not everyone believes the stories of samurai's and monks.

    Apparently you've never talked to Thomas. But since his private life is something he dosen't talk about openly we won't discuss it here. Let's just say James victimized family, friends, and strangers equally.

    Yes we know, the information is there for everyone, just like it was going to be last year. Didn't come out last year, but maybe this year it will come out. Of course it's $200.00 a head to attend, plus travel and lodging.

    Well at least dedicate some time and effort to making your yellow belt. ;)
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  6. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Trashing people is not the reason

    John I was not trashing Mills, I mentioned I respectfully disagreed with his statement about EP's devout Mormon personality. He actually attacked me, similar to what you did on this board. Along with your clone Dan.
    I produced an article that was written back in 1961 and some other items that I posted. But to this day Mills has not responded, except with his attack.

    You are very concerned with who someone was taught by, or name this person or that one who did this or that. When in reality many perfected there own systems by working with someone, not necessarily in the system but to work from pictures they saw and then duplicate and maybe added something that they liked better from something else they learned or saw or knew of and even borrowed...

    Or going to a park and watching the birds or animals and then duplicate the movements that particular bird or animal or bug or fish did, and built a system around it. Or so history and others mention.

    Sort of like the Filipino systems that are so plentiful. Started out with 5 strikes or defenses and added a few, or saw a system that had 12 and decided to take away a couple or add one or two from another system and bingo. Now they have the old family one handed down for generations.

    Kicked off boards, yes with the help of a moderator that you disagreee with and because they can't discuss the topic in a reasonable way decide to remove you because you disagree with the BS they are spewing and you say so. Similar to what happened here at the sign of my handle. Insecure are we?

    As far as a yellow belt I think/believe I get the slur. But in the systems I work in, the belt is called Gold and most Filipino systems don't really have belts, not the ones I study anyway.

    Actually I ended up here because of the Geary item, and the letter written to you by "Karazenpo" I was googling something and came up with the new web site Joe has, and followed it up, and here I am. I thought what he mentions is pretty much what I have learned in the past and wanted to see what others thought.
    Then I get here and see you and Dan doing your abbot and lou routine, and figured I'd see what happens when I mention a few things, so here we are same O same O.

    Funny how intolerant you are of posters, as you two are displaying on this website and other websites. Other than the one you hide on most of the time.
    You are so controling and demanding and totalitarian. I truly find that interesting. And pretty revealing.

    Kajukenbo has grown and so has other organizations, funny when guys go their seperate ways and show up a decade later and do the techs similar but with a twist, or the kata a little different then it is handed down to their students and pretty soon you wonder where it came from? Been going on for hundred's if not thousands of years.

    John let me ask you this. Do you believe OJ is innocent? A couple of the legal players on Mitose's trial were the same as on that one. Go figure...
    That was another one of hundreds of cases that didn't get handled quite right.
    What Department did you work, I am not sure you have mentioned it? Or if you did, I was probably not concerned.

    I'll let the people's reading this, be the judge.

    As far as the $200.00 goes well that is life. :cry: You pay for entertainment. Pretty reasonable considering all the trouble Bruce goes through, trying to get people to it with their busy schedules, and the plane tickets he give's out to the ones who are getting old, and can't afford to fly to it. He helps out a little.
    Terrible huh?

    I believe the dinner is extra, I usually don't go to those. The food is usually full of MSG and I get sick from it. Pretty funny about MSG, about 20+% of the population is allergic to it and to some it is more potent/fatal then arsenic, gram for gram (similar to peanuts). Yet they put it into many many foods.

    In fact there is not much good that comes from it at all, except to cheapen the cost to produce good flavor when not using higher priced spices. One of the reasons it was/is used in Chinese food so much, at least that is what I have read. It became so bad for some they even called it the Chinese food syndrom :)

  7. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Damn, and I thought that the BS forums were controversial...
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Gary! I'm crushed.

    Yeah that happens to people when they are trying to be accurate about things.

    Or elves. Gary, you forgot to mention elves! HELLO?

    So...they got that from watching birds and bugs?

    Wait a minute. Where were those reasonable posts you're mentioning Gary?

    Well, you need to start studying the ones not based on bugs in a park Gary.

    Well, that's probably true.

    That probably should read "Abbot and Costello" or "Bud and Lou" rather than mixing the first and last names like that. Have you no respect for classical comedy teams Gary? I mean, I can understand you constantly trashing people like Ed Parker and Mills Crenshaw, but Abbot and Costello? Come ON!

    That should read ridiculous posters, Gary.

    Would that be Martial Talk, Kenpo Talk, Bullshido, Budoseek, Martial Arts Planet,, or the Cafe?

    Jeez, I thought he just asked for your sources? :confused:

    Can anyone say "non sequitur?"

  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Since we have been discussing Terry Lee I thought I would see how he is doing. I see he still has a school, in the town of brotherly love.

    I am going to contact him and see what he has to say. I am not sure what will occur but hey, it is worth a try. Maybe get him to offer some pearls of wisdom.
    I think a discussion might be good or not...Been 30 plus years or so, since the killing. I noticed at another site he was talking brotherly love.

    Maybe he is in contact with Thomas, he seems to have credentials. That were not something I was aware. But you know you cannot really go by a website.
    One of the reasons I have not checked John Bishops of late but since you mentioned his bio Dan, I'll go check it out. Thanks for the inspiring thought.

    Regards, :)
  10. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John Bishop

    Hi John,
    Maybe you could let us in on some more of your information about this post and your post on this topic about John Leoning and his arrival to the Mainland, prior to Hawaii being made a state. I am interested in the Chow part, his belt? And about Sonny Gascon?

    I believe the post is #109, on this thread. I know you probably arn't going to remember this post but I got it off of a website I used to be on.

    We were having pretty much the same discussion until you deemed it necessary to tell everyone in one of your "tirades" (that they allowed you). You said I was 13, and crazy something like that, similar to your attack on this forum, only then you did not mention my LAPD service. Be pretty hard to combine 13 years old and being retired from LAPD? :)

    Dan you were not around on this one, I believe you were then a "friend" of Joe's? :confused:

    The Post....

    Re: John Leoning - from Kajukenbo to where?


    John Leoning was the first Kajukenbo instructor on the mainland, in 1957. There are a few of John Leoning's students still around. Some of the better known ones would be the actor "Robert Conrad" from the TV shows "Hawaiian Eye", "Wild Wild West", and "Black Sheep Squadrun". The first "Kajukenbo" displayed on TV was on the "Wild Wild West" tv show. One notable fight was between Conrad and the actor Robert Stroud (who was a early Kajukenbo black belt under Sijo Emperado).
    Leoning's student Carlos Bunda was the first lightweight black belt champion at Ed Parker's "International Karate Championships". He was also one of the few men to beat Chuck Norris in tournament competition.
    Leoning's student Bill Ryusaki is probably best known as the instructor of Benny "the Jet" Urquidez and his brothers and sister. Benny and his sister Lily were both world kickboxing champions.
    Leoning had trained with many notable instructors. Primarily Adriano and Joe Emperado, but also with William Chow, and later Share Lew. Some confusion about the system he taught arises from the name of Leoning's organization "North American Kung Fu and Karate Association". He did add some kung fu techniques to his teaching, but he was always a Kajukenbo instructor, as are his students who now teach.
    Some of his senior Kajukenbo students would be: Sijo Victor Gascon, Grandmaster Carlos Bunda, Grandmaster Bill Ryusaki, Grandmaster Ricardo Kingi, and Professor Doug Bunda. Actually, the only one who dosen't teach Kajukenbo is Victor "Sonny" Gascon.
    John Bishop

    "The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Prevail, is for Good Men to Do Nothing" Edmond Burke

  11. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Still at it Gary?

    Attached Files:

  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John Bishop

    John if that is how you want to put it, I guess that is it? Right?
    I have mentioned looking for the truth and wading through the politics OK?

    I would just like to point out, I posted above a statement prior to your last statement... You mentioned GM Bill Ryusaki.

    I am saying:

    GM Bill Ryusaki calls his art "Hawaiian Kempo" I have taken the liberty to give you another link that might be of interest.

    I don't care for the lineage chart because the person has omitted John Leoning (john leone is this spelling) as part of the direct link. But, hey what do I know? I have mentioned it before but you said it was wrong.

    He might be included in Kajukenbo, but he changed, it appears.
    Similar to why Sonny Gascon did I would think? I think that happened when he left Johns school and took and taught Bennie the Jet.
    Got his start in the movies probably from Johnny but that is just a guess, maybe you could clairify, since we are all looking for the "TRUTH" arn't we?

    If John called his school as you mention "North American Kung Fu and Karate Association" then when GM Bill left and moved to Hawaii, he named his "Hawaiian Kempo". Wasn't Walter Godin in there some where, I know he was a problem, but you just can't erase him, can you???

    I figure these Gentlemen had already removed themselves from Sijo, for some reason?
    Now if Sijo wants to claim them I guess that is where you are coming from??

    Looks like GM Bill was a multi student of many instructors, similar to Johnny and Sonny. Yes/No???
    Though I believe Sonny claims that Johnny was his instructor, and his very good friend.

    I am just going to go at it, one piece at a time. The next installment will be something else.

    John Bishop, I just got an e-mail from a Mike Rash, he apparantly is watching this thread and he wrote me and said to tell you that GM Sonny Gascon is in town and that he can arrange a meeting. The area is by Anaheim, I guess that is fairly close to you? He mentioned GMV"S"G would be in town for a few days since he is visiting his Grandkids. He feels it would be worth everyones while. Just delivering the message it came as a surprise to me. Hope all goes well. Gary

    Last edited: Sep 30, 2006
  13. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    We went thru this years ago. You already missed your chance to talk to Willian Chow, Thomas Young, Ed Parker, and many others who have passed on.
    Back then I told you to contact people yourself, since you don't believe anything I say. Billy Ryusaki still lives in Burbank (he never moved back to Hawaii), I talked to him a couple months ago at Sijo's tournament. Carlos Bunda still lives in Los Angeles, I just got a email from him today. John Leoning Jr. lives in Orange county. And there are many other 1st and 2nd generation people still around.
    Try talking to the actually people who were there, instead of reading websites put up by people 5-6 generations down the line, who never met any of the main players.
    You and me have already gone down this road. I answered your questions over and over again. I've told you my sources. You choose not to believe me, which is something I don't lose any sleep over. I've given you eye witness sources, so feel free to contact them.
    If I wanted to know about you, would it be better to talk to you, or your great-great grand children?
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Ok John..
    I sent the edit and Sonny is in town are you going to get in touch with him?
    Do you have Mike Rash's e-mail??

    I guess that will about do it with this subject...
    More on Mitose though maybe???

  15. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I don't need a messenger boy. If Prof. Rash really contacted you, then he should contact me himself. He knows how to contact me. He's also got my email address, and he can PM me at any of the forums we both read.
    He's contacted me in the past about writing a magazine article on GM Gascon, and he bought a set of Kajukenbo dvd's from me last summer.
    So I don't think he needs any go-betweens to contact me. In fact if he dosen't want to call or email me, then I'll be at Art Ruiz's tournament at E. Los Angeles City College next sunday. And we can discuss my personal problem with one of his east coast representatives, just like I did with Sigung Namahoe a few weeks ago.
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Ok John,
    I know you are not going to believe it but I don't really know what you are talking about, except maybe I can guess because of the post's between you and Joe.

    When you mentioned Orange County about John Jr. I figure that is one of the places Sonny will be. But I don't believe Sonny will be around, if you want to see him it has to be tomorrow or so...If you see him maybe you can ask him about the pictures in the infinite insights #1.

    I would like to know what he has to say about those pictures. I truly thought the man on the right on page 26 was John Leoning. You say you found out from EP well maybe he was wrong. Or not...I believe I asked you several times and you never mentioned his name, Bobby Lowe, you only mentioned the others. So I believed you were skirting the issue.

    Hey, if we can keep it on an even keel I'll try to be following your advice, but you know I did try several years ago and I never heard back and the last I had heard was Bill was in Hawaii, maybe he was on vacation...

    I guess you figure you are right.
    I know the feeling also...

    When I talked to Richard Bustillo a year ago at one of his functions at his school and I attended for a 6 day seminar, he mentioned that Johnny was a Black Belt when he came here. So I have tried.. Conflicting information, then you call me names, well so it goes...
    I have even talked to people about Sensei Oshita so I have information there, but I am sure it will not agree with yours.
    I have conceded that Mitose was a criminal but even to this day in the organization of Kosho, Bruce will say he believes he was not involved or guilty?? (we disagree on it)He feels Mitose felt responsible because of Terry Lee. Also he acted like he did because he was trying to save his family. Like I have said, many reasons for people to think one way or another. Anyway.

    You know one thing I like about Larry Hartsell he has a saying.
    Don't confuse kindness for weakness, something like that anyway...I believe that also. Some seem to differ, that is for sure.

  17. PeterG

    PeterG Valued Member

    So as a newbie to this thread I have to ask:

    1) Are those tapes of Chris Geary on Gascon's site doing forms poorly from when Chris was still a Cerio 1st degree, presumably the mid to late 1990s? If so when was that tape shot?

    2) So neither Sonny or George had a BB when they started their own arts?
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    As a newbie to this forum myself and some of the various information I have read at this location and at other locations...I would have to say stay tuned, for it is still in the works.

    Right can be left, and left can be right, but are they both wrong at the same time? Correctness and politics is a funny combo-nation. I think it might go back as far as Abraham. What I have read by some.

  19. RevIV

    RevIV Valued Member


    In yesterdays post you mentined Prof. Godin as a problem, can you expand on this please? He is someone i have only recently started researching and there really isnt a lot out there.
    In Peace
  20. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    More Naked Glory

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