Do you have a link with a bio for this woman? Just curious to see where she's coming from. She's right, it may be "un PC", but I think she raises some excellent points and has a good head on her shoulder. Just curious if she's a martial artists or not and would like to see if she's got any solid recommendations on how to address this issue.
I think there may be a good point lost in the middle of there somewhere. You can't teach a small woman techniques designed for large male policemen. She could've just said that though.
I'm out the door for court, but I will say I think it was imperative to mention the "stepford wives" syndrome. Too many male instructors teach women they are invulnerable. And some are really tough and can take on the men, but many women, and even smaller guys, need to be taught different stratgeies. Can smaller men and women hold their own? I believe the answer is "yes". But not if they're brainwashed into fighting like a larger male.
Yelena is a former Russian police and SWAT officer who has defended herself multiple times, both with and without a firearm. Yelena now offers instruction here in the US. Learn more about her http://www.ytraining.com/self_defense_for_women.html I mentioned one of her articles here in the Womens SD forum some time ago (where I moved your thread to slip )... and directed her to it for comment, and I do believe she registered here. (I'll have to check on that - could have been from another forum I was on )... but she does bring up some valid points in this article as well as many of her SD articles where she points out the biggest myths, misgivings & misconstructions used against women with regard to SD instruction She was at the Arnold Classic a few years ago with that dog dog which did tricks ( 'bite the bad guy' and 'eat the aggressor') and she demonstrated some very basic hand-to-hand. FYI Unfortunately ( sorry Yalena) her SD tapes are BAD
The criticisms certainly are valid. I, of course, have no problem criticizing the women's self defense industry. The problem is, it doesn't look like she's offering very much that's better than the courses she criticizes. Particularly: 1: The techniques appear to be pretty much the same thing as before. Ippon seioinage as response to a rear "choke", a wristlock or two and the magic groin knee. 2: The upright stance in response to a football tackle. Even when your opponent knows nothing about takedowns, that's still gonna put you off balance and probably on your butt. She needs to be lowering her level and getting superior clinch. After that, the other possibilities (knees, chokes, pushing off) become available. 3: The use of the outdated martian-man suit. If you absolutely insist on dressing up your prescripted victim in a biohazard suit, there are much better options.
With you 100% Gangrel. I have met some scary women over the years. Scary good. I am under the impression that most people can learn to defend themselves but it all goes to pot once the pain sets in. I avoided fights growing up and had never been hit until I took Karate. We were full contact and it taught me a lot about pain! For most of ladies that I have seen train, they don't usually get that opportunity. Sadly it is a lesson I hope won't cost more people, not just women, their lives!
I did love the comment about if you do JKD, it does not make you Bruce Lee. :woo: I don't think there are that many people these days who believe they can pull off the exact technique as someone else whether much bigger than them or not. I personally have always been surrounded by people that pipe up if something does not work for them, they say exactly what they have on their minds, because they want it to work. Surely if you are trying techniques you know if they actually work or not for you and as an instructor you point out varying techniques for different builds, women or not. Perhaps these high profile men that she mentions, should not be as high profile as they maybe are then. As my opnion of a good martial artist is someone that can adapt on the spot for different individuals. One thing I like about the Filipino Martial Arts, it has been developed and taught by a nation of small people. But still, with it reaching Europe and people being generally bigger, some movements and techniques naturally get adapted to suit the bigger person and my husband sometimes shows me stuff that I cannot pull off and I just tell him outright. It often boils down to his arms being longer than mine or I even believe he can be Cack handed at times, but this may be that he is ambidextrous (SP) and most people are generally more comfrotable with one side or the other. So often when we teach together we will say this is how we have been taught in the Philippines, but this is how my husband does it or this is how I do it, try them all as one may suit you better than the other. So straight away we have 3 ways for them to try the same thing, based on different builds, height, sex and we always find ways to do the same thing to get round disabilities too. I got the impression that she was possibly having a dig at someone specific, it seemed and sounded somewhat like a political argument, taking along time to get to the point. Bitching a bit too much, although I can see why. I understand it is something close to her heart and she geniunely wants people to learn the right stuff for them and not to be fooled but I think she lost the plot a bit. Perhaps she should just educate people on how to find the right instructor, rather than bitching about others, because she is also giving the wrong impression about women who may have been good instructors before they were with their husbands. So she has almost input a seed for all people to have no respect for wives of good instructors regardless of their own knowledge, although she attempted to save the good ones in her last paragraph. Is she saying all other women do not know what they are talking about but she does? I think self defence courses will never be good enough, because yes they will always be aimed at the masses and when do they get individual time to practice and find out if they are performing techniques correctly and how do you know the instructor is not just teaching what works for them. You don't, unless you yourself are already a good martial artist. I would like to see all women do Filipino Martial Arts, because it is an art from a small nation, it is adaptable, it is vindictive to some extent and very effective and it is a complete art covering all ranges with weapons and empty hands including boxing, kicking and grappling. But it is an art, it does take years of training. There is lots of good self defence techniques with great effect, but it requires drilling, not a few hours in a self defence course. Self defence for the pOlice and general public will always be a grey area. If people seriously want to learn to defend themselves they should take up a martial art that suits them. I say suits them, because they should go round and try out different martial arts and even different styles once they have chose their suited art and then make sure they like the instructor as these are all factors that will enable them to learn far quicker. If you enjoy what you are doing you will progress faster and gain more confidence. I have advised people to try other styles of FMA to find the one that suits them best, to then see them progress much faster once they found one they loved more than the rest. I have so much to say, but I will leave it at that for now, so to avoid boring you all . Lots of love :love: Lucy
I will say though, how comes most experts on womens self defence are Men? I mean they have never been a women and really cannot begin to get into the mind and build of a women. (Thats why so many marriages fail too :woo: ) And womens abilities really do differ so much from one to the next. So she is right about those points. We do need to know more about someones background and what they are basing their knowledge on, ie.their experiences. Lots of love :love: Lucy
There are probably dozens of factors in this one. Give it some thought and I am sure you can come up with some reasons not the least of which would be that the majority of law enforcement officers are men and that it's been traditionally a male dominated sector. You don't have to be a woman to know that a 90lb woman is going to have a very hard time wrestling a 200lb man intent on raping or hurting. Of course they're not women... but they don't neccessarily need to be to understand the issues in a way that where they can develop programs that provide effective cirriculums for self defense. I don't need to be president to understand what the job entails and to form an opinion of the president and to say where he might do a better job.
Alot of them are men, granted, but it does not mean that all of them are good at teaching from a womens point of view. I was asking the question, I did not say I had not got an opnion on it. Some like Jamie O'Keefe are top class self defence instructors, but just because someone is a Policeman or Martial artist, does this mean to say they are experts on womens self defense. The Policeman for instance, very rarely goes into a confrontation without backup and all too often is carrying a minimum of pepper spray, trounchon and a set of handcuffs. I have met policeman that could not punch their way out of a wet paper bag in a one on one confrontation. So at what point do they become experts in self defence from a womens point of view? Some policeman even openly admit that their self defence courses given to the police are crap and dangerous, invariably taught by civilians (In the UK) who do not understand self defence from a police officers point of view. They have just completed a course recognised by the government which is why they get the job regardless of their personal experience. One Policeman told me that a PE instructor done this course and then got the job teaching the police how to defend themselves and another was a female Tai Chi instructor in her 60's. So are the Police teaching on, what they are taught in the job? Or are they teaching from personal experience? Surely there is enough female police officers to go round and teach self defence, especially as some women feel threatened or scared already, because of past experiences with men. Which is often why they are on the courses in the first place. But how does a 200lb man teach a 90lb women what works, afterall the last time he was 90lb was when he was a boy. I believe you should try the techniques on someone heavier once you have learnt them, just to see if they work. But unless he is genuinly teaching a technique that a women has applied on him whilst he is resisting, how does he know that it will work for them. really? We are not talking about issues, I hope. I am talking about womens self defence not statistics quoted to them at a course....I mean real techniques that have a high percentage of effectiveness for women against larger attackers. (Because no techniques are 100% effective.) Just because you understand the job, does not mean you can actually do the job :woo: . How many football fans in the terraces do you see with an opnion on how the manager can do a better job or how the player can play better. They understand the job, but put them on the bench or stick them on the pitch and they will be like a fish out of water. Like I said, it is all about experience. You don't see someone off the street elected as President. It is the politicians with experience of that area that get the job. Lots of love :love: Lucy
I didn't say all of them were good at it. So in that case we agree. Again - I didn't say all of them were experts on womens self defense. Give us your definition of 'expert'. I am not touting LEO's as 'experts'... in fact I don't even think it's been established what 'expert' is in this case. Not surprising. Seems to me that'd be a question for the police in your area. As your in the UK I wouldn't have the slightest idea. Ok... so where are they? I doubt the way LEO department budgets work that there are really enough female LEO's to go around and teach self defense quite honestly. Come on. A wrist lock is a wrist lock... there are certain basics in attitude, outlook and physical mechanics that apply to everyone. Is that saying what works for a 200lb man will work for a petite woman? Obviously not. But will the knowledge of how not to make yourself a victim and how to be aware of your surrounding work for someone regardless of size and strength? I'd imagine it would work for both. Obviously. I don't know that you're ever going to have 100% infallibility everytime with every technique. There are far too many factors involved to be making any kind of blanket bets. Not sure what issues and statistics you're talking about frankly. No - again... beating the obvious to death... but it sure is a good place to start from. I won't go into the 'experience' issue with politicians because one only has to take a look at Bush to realize how false that assertion is. Again - obviously it's all about experience... but since you're never, ever going to find a man who can know 100% what it feels like to be a woman then you're going to have to find some common ground in teaching techniques. There obviously aren't enough female teachers with effective techniques (LEO or otherwise) or we wouldn't even be covering this subject. I don't think that just for one to teach effective female SD techniques that one need be a woman. That's a bit silly. Yes it helps if they are aware of all the issues surrounding the physical differences between a man and a woman - and it helps to have a good understanding of the mindsets that will be encountered in each gender... but I don't see it as being very realistic to expect that all women's SD instructors be women.
I guess I have always seen self defence classes as being an avenue for the girly girls to go and learn some basic self defence for self protection. Usually if someone is not shy, they will seek out a martial arts club and have fun doing so, but the shy girly girls are the types that opt for a short self defence class. Often it is people that have already had a scare or even been attacked that seek out self defence classes, so this is why I find it so odd that it would be assumed that women would be comfortable at first being taught by a man. I have seen girls in MA classes clam up around men or even just go silly with nerves when approached by the male instructor and these are people that are fully aware that it was going to be a man teaching them a martial art for whatever their personal reasons for doing so. Yet it is mainly men that teach SD. Do you think the men genuinly care more about womens SD? Or just have more confidence in it effects? Or perhaps women are generally not confident SD instructors. I don't really know why there is a lack of women, but the male SD Instructors I know here in the UK are very good SD instructors and have very good reputations in that field too, so I guess this would give you a good reason to go to them regardless of any fears you may have. Believe it or not this months Martial Arts Illustrated MAgazine has actually got a female SD Instructor's article in it, which is refreshing and about time. She is originally from a Karate and Aikido background but has done the right thing and trained with a good SD Instructor first, before teaching self defence. Do you think that if you come from a martial arts background it is actually harder to teach self defence from a novice perspective? As obviously you personally would know to train something until it works well and will have the capabilities of picking up techniques easily which again comes from training and to some extent be far more natural and confident at performing techniques, again through previous experiences of training in martial arts. I think there are rare people that can take themselves back to thinking and feeling on novice levels, so to understand Joe Public's thoughts and feelings, but that is not something everyone can do, which I assume would be a quality required to teach someone off the street in a self defence lesson. I only ask, as I teach an art and yes it is fantastic for self defence, but it is not stuff you would teach to Joe Public for a self defence course as some reactions are only learnt and gained from repetative training. So if I wanted to teach Self Defence ever, I would only do it by means of training with a self defence Instructor/officer first to learn the recommended programmes and teaching techniques. But...the point I am taking so long to get to (sorry) is so many Martial Arts clubs claim to teach self defence, but all to often base it on their chosen martial art, do you think this is wrong? My opnion is often martial arts are just that....arts! They are not always the quick fix to a self protection situation for Joe Public. Which is why I said in my earlier post, you need to be informed and educated about who and what you are actually learning...and know about their backgrounds/certifications first otherwise you could be mislead into an unprepared SD class, which may even teach you dangerous outright stupid techniques that will just tickle or **** off your attacker or fail to teach you the appropriate avoidence techniques to get out of a situation where possible. Any way got to go, baby screaming. Lots of love :love: Lucy
A lot of the problems I see are that 1.) most of the senarios are unrealistic. The guys foster a lot of the misconceptions about rape and sexual assault and women are unprepared for the reality. And 2.) it is hard for people who fight in one style or manner to teach someone who must fight in another manner. Though I am a woman, being tall and having decent upper body strength makes it easier for men to teach me. Conversly, when I worked with helping an instructor teach women's SD class I had a hard time translating what I knew to smaller, weaker women. So a lot of it is the inability to step out of your own manners and methods. The one thing I did emphasize and continue to think is important is resistance training and the need for women to become comfortable in close quarters and on the ground. Something I generally find sadly lacking in most defense courses.
She makes some good points but in quite a depressing light! Learning MA has only made me more aware of how vulnerable a small person can be if attacked. I know that most of the guys at my dojo could easily overcome me with brute force if they wanted to. Lucky for me they're not the enemy. My instructor teaches us MA but definitely helps us work on SD applications suitable for different body types/opponents. He readily will admit that some moves are more suited for certain heights/weight range/ However, groundwork can take some of the disparity away (as I have learnt from all the BJJ'ers here and recent grappling experience). The problem with a lot of SD courses are that they are short courses which barely scratch the surface of situations and the instructors may not have a suitable SD background.
