The changing face of violence

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Smitfire, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    @Smitty & VoidKarateka:

    Not wishing to diss your opinions, but there is a lot of "feeling" in your analyses. It could well be different in your particular areas, but the general picture in the UK is that we are safer now than we were 20 years ago.

    I've noticed that many people tend to feel less safe, and more concerned about safety, as they get a bit older. Not saying this is the case, but perhaps it's a possibility?
  2. Cen Garsden

    Cen Garsden Flamin' Wobbygong

    Ha. I've lived at several of the Mad Max film sites.

    I find ice/meth a huge battle. We call them whitewalkers here, zombies who don't think or feel pain. I locked down a few of them recently, and the result was (sadly) me needing to move ASAP, shots fired at my house, and finally working out the house itself had such a history of usage of said drug the reason I couldn't sleep was it had infected me without ever "using" it. Insidious.

    In AU the usual thing is the guys beating the living snot out of people (and using a vehicle to run down and kill people in the city mall) claim to be the "victims". It's so harsh here lately I flipped from "do what you want" to considering capital punishment was a worthy option within a space of a year. Speaking of "Fury Road" some whitewalker nearly put his car through the front of our house two weeks ago (unrelated to the gun thing), then sped up the street, t-boned someone and died. My housemate's girlfriend drove past the crash site. 10 Police units. Absolutely no media coverage.
  3. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Hi David, been a while.

    When you talk about the general picture, you seem to be citing the matter of frequency. I believe certain numbers are down, and that's probably understandable given our cities are jam packed with cameras these days.

    But I think the OP is addresing something else and that's level of violence. To illustrtae what I'm trying to say and to keep the post concise let me ask you. Would you rather be harrassed, threatened, slapped, maybe punched or kicked (a little) and robbed several times (but by and large remained relatively unharmed), say 2-3 times, or stabbed up once ?

    I think in matters of fear and psychology it would be perfectly understandable to feel less safe under the latter scenario than the former. The risk of severe or fatal injury is or perceived as higher. Frequency on its own doesn't provide the full picture I think.

  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yeah I'm not a statistition. I can't even spell statistition.
    I can accept we are generally safer (which I think we are) while still feeling that the nature of the violence that still does happen might be changing (which I accepted right from the start might not be the case and down to various own included).
    I just think the old advice of "just give them your phone or wallet, or carry a fake wallet as a decoy" as a way to avoid physical harm during a mugging is maybe becoming less useful?
    It seems you're quite likely to get a smack or two even if you do what they want, or even get a smack right off the bat to start proceedings.
    Better advice I think would be to treat mugging as a violent act in and off itself and to be ready to defend yourself even if you, on the surface, give them what they want.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I get that, but "perceived risk" tells us nothing meaningful about the subject.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Did anyone ever really presume that handing stuff over was any guarantee to avoiding physical assault?

    Here's some recent stats: Violent crime rising in England and Wales, police figures show
    Dead_pool likes this.
  7. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    It tells us about peoples fears. Whether perception is entirely accurate or not fear doesn't care. Now if you're taking a psychologists perspective to a patient suffering increased levels of fear, the statistics around violent incidents are perhaps just as meaningless. So I guess it depends on the subject.

    If it was shown that extreme violence is being carried out more often than it has in the past, then fearing worse violence is justified. How often it happens doesn't really matter.

    I lived at my old place for nearly 7 years and I've recently moved. About 2-3 months ago there was a murder of a young man within 100 metres of my house. That's a first as far as I'm aware in that vicinity. . All of a sudden, it can happen, whereas before it was "that wouldn't happen around here" or "that kind of thing doesn't happen around here."

    Feeling safe where you live is pretty important to people, moreso people with children.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't disagree with any of that, but the OP was:

    "Does anyone have info or insight into whether approaches to violence are changing or evolving? Attack choices, tactics, etc?"

    How people feel or perceive violent crime tells us nothing about the question in the OP, that's all I was saying.
  9. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    That's fine, but you were the one that brought the OP's and someone elses perceptions into the discussion. I was continuing that thread (of the discussion). I find it quite interesting.. But ok.

    Did anyone see the 3 parter on Channel 5 about gangs not long ago?
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hey, I'm not trying to stop you talking about that if you want.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I am seeing nothing new in terms of nature and ferocity of attacks (mind you distance from Canada means I have to squint anyway) and a lot of the ones mentioned such a buttock stabbing and the like are again not innovations or trends in violence. Percentages increases in numbers are typically caused by several factors -

    1) Genuine increase in the actual offences
    2) Increased robustness in recording metrics (for example theft is a crime against property whereas robbery is against person - a "misclassified" crime would tilt one or other stat)
    3) Increased reporting - there are times when many people simply don't bother either because of fear, previous bad experience with the system or because they don't consider it worthwhile
    4) Increased media profile - this doesn't actually increase the stats obviously, but it increases overall awareness and likelihood to spot and observe things and subsequently the wake of any media call for help in high profile cases calls to tiplines and intel lines can triple which leads to more apprehension etc...
    5) Change in offence nature - not really an issue with violent crime per se, but "New labor" reduced drug crime drastically by simply decriminalizing cannabis and few other substances....I don't think many people were fooled by this, but this type of goalpost moving does occasionally cause spikes up and down
    axelb and David Harrison like this.
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    No. But there's certainly the perception (or was) that a "mugger" (in general if such a thing can be said) is after an easy pay day, doesn't want resistance and will seek escape when they get what they want. There have been many posts on MAP saying that it's often best to hand over your wallet when mugged.
    Also hence why being an observant "hard target" is a good thing to cultivate as you could, possibly, put them off without them even approaching you.

    Again..just reading reports on muggings in my seems to me that the attack and the theft are becoming all part of the same act. A "thrill seeking" act that will be violent no matter how you respond to the mugger.
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I always worked from that assumption, to be honest.
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That's because you're a street-boss.
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio


    Did anyone seriously teach people to hand over a fake wallet without being ready for things to kick off? Seems like a perfect opportunity to sucker punch someone while they're reaching in their pocket.
  16. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    The reports on acid attack increase caught my attention, I read that it was drain cleaner on recent incidents, which is easy enough to get a hold of.

    I have been involved in a few violent attacks and I only ever reported one, the first, after my experience with the police process I felt it was worthless to report unless someone was hospitalised.

    There are some sites that will show you reported crimes by date and region, one thing I noted on these, there are a number of robberies or violent attacks which were "closed" because they could not find a witness and/or the criminal, as a result these were not included in the statistics for violent crimes.
  17. VoidKarateka

    VoidKarateka Valued Member

    Absolutely, I specifically use the word feel because I really don't have enough current factual research done to reinforce my opinion. I am a parent now, whereas 10 years ago I was not and so I'm probably a bit more paranoid and wary now (and possibly even a bit more prone to media influence because of that). Also my experiences growing up and the confrontations I have been in (in a fairly 'rough' area to grow up) have sort of reinforced that feeling I have.

    And if we are statistically safer I wouldn't want to be that one guy that ended up on the wrong end of the wrong mugger who wanted more than just my belongings.
    David Harrison and Dead_pool like this.
  18. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

  19. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

  20. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    The one i knew was to throw decoy money at them. But on that topic, tjhere is a video onactive self protection of someone being muhgged by a armed mugger, dropping their jewlery etc, using a woman as concealment to a draw of a psitol then shooting themugger because they where focused on pciking the things up off the floor.
    David Harrison likes this.

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