hi guys here is a discution that i know little about...but as i have said before...i get great info from the sword nuts on here. the cavalry sword. i here alot about long swords katanas such but very little about the cav sword. 1. i have hear that fencing swords are not "real" weapons....i know it would feal "real" if some one ran a foil into my abdomine...but i have heard that they were manily for dueling fenceing and ceromonie....having long ago had there war time uses been replaced by the musket. how about the calvary sword....the kind i see officers brandishing around in the civil war movies 2. how well are they constructed.....like would a broudsword or katanna hack through it...what was it made out of.....and was it forged like the old swords 3. is there a martial art or system to it, did offiders train with it.....or just brandish it around and hack at folk. 4.now i know im asking for trouble but.....any stories opinions and history of...cav sword v long, cav v katana, cav v foil...etc
In a way, you're right, but then again; the modern olympic fencing foil is the result of over(?) 500 years of evolution of the Rapier (and it's relatives). The rapier was indeed a real weapon (allthough it was perhaps more a duelling weapon than a weapon for the battlefield) The quality would vary, depending on use and demand contra production-process. No matter the quality, a katana or broadsword would not be able to "hack" through it, as you say. Yes. I don't know much about the details here, but what I do know, is that there are 2 basic approaches to modern cavalleryblades; the curved ones, best at cutting, and the straight ones, best at piercing. What is important when we're talking about mountet combat, is that there is tremendous force involved, and that if the angle of the stab/cut from a galloping horse is just a little off line, the result might pretty fast be a fractured underarm/wrist, so most "martial" systems seem pretty simple, but be not fooled; timing and angle have to be 100% correct. If you're talking about sabre-fighting on foot, there exists manuals about that as well. As it happens, there is currently a thread that is about the myth/truth of europeans duelling in japan from 1500-1900, so you can read that one. I don't know about any incidents where the katana have med the sabre, but there are probably several incidents that should be available about sabre vs sabre in europe up untill WW2 (some in germany practiced first-blood-sabre-fencing up untill WW2) -or about imperialis soldier incidents in asia or africa with sabre vs. natives.
its kinda unfornuate...this topic doesnt seem to be in your wheelhouse...to bad i have come to really apreciate your knowlege on weapons....you are truely a great poster when i said that fencing weapons were not "reaL" weapons i was refering a notion i kinda have about dueling weapons. most of the time duels were not meant to kill. while death is always a possibility for one or more of the participants.its not always desired. many times duels were just meant to settle insults. "you have called my mom a fat pig, i wont take that kinda stuff, lets duel" a non leathal duel allows you to both still look tough, have honor in check, serve a warning to others but NOT start a blood fued that requires someones childrens children to avenge i have heard acounts of how participants would intentionally miss on a pistol duel hence dueling weopons tend to be less leathal. pistol and foil as oppposed to blunderbuss, axe, musket, gattling gun or cannon i have been following the sammari portugess thread....very cool...but it would seem to be that the long rapier that you put in your drawing is quite a bit differnt from the cav sword alos o didnt really think about the fact that if you had your arm wrong while using the sword mounted you would really injure yourself....great point
Thanks for all the good words. I wonder from what time period do the wiew on non-lethal duelling weapons start? I know that a famous norwegian hero from the nordic wars in the 17th and 18th centuries; Tordenskiold was killed in a duel, because he only wore a smallsword (a small rapier, allmost like regalia, if you like), whereas the opponent had a proper military sword. I'm not sure wether he had a sabre or a long rapier. European swords from 16th century onwards is really not my cup of tea; the only thing i Know, is that you had a variety of swords differenting greatly in shape and size. http://www.swordschool.com/en/weapons.html But you're wanting info on cavalery swords, so while we both wait for someone who actually knows the answer to your questions, I can repeat what I've allready been saying Cavallery sabres could be straight http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/frdragoon1.jpg or curved http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/1802sabre_1.jpg (NB, the following, I only have from my heaad after a visit to the Royal armoury in Leeds, and might very well be wrong, or just part of the story): The straight ones were primarily used like a short lance, pointing the tip at the top of the head of the (fleeing) enemy, piercing and cutting on the top of the enemy's head at the same time as the horse passed, hoping that the blade would jerk through the scull and come free. The curved ones were either used with the similar technique, only just cutting, not piercing, or held in an upright position, then cutting downwards forcefully as the horse passes the (fleeing) enemy. On ground, sabre-fencing was a martial system, and I know that people practice it today, and knows how the system works, it's just that I don't know anything about the system
In the Secret History of the Sword, by Christoph Amberger, there is an account of two cavalry officers dueling with their sabres. The photo of the outcome of the duel would leave you in no doubt of the effectiveness of this weapon. One poor chap's head is lying a couple of feet from his body. That photo still shocks me everytime I see it. Atleast it was quick! The Bear.
I'd rather give them away than have them crushed. Our collection started whilst working in Edinburgh. My son's toy sword had broken so as well as visiting the disney shop I got him one of these. Very appropriate for a 4 year old I thought, his Mum disagreed though.
Strange woman. My missues has her own two swords though. I still work in the hell hole that is Edinburgh despite being from the holy city of Glasgow. However that is a basket hilted broadsword and not a cavalry sword, it is the hanwei practical? The Bear.
ooooooh that is very nice. I likey. My new sword should arrive from the forge in January so expect swordporn days after that. The Bear.
im not sure when nonleathal dueling started...but without any reasearch or expertise in history beyond what is needed for a chem degree and watching the history channel. im pretty sure that it was common in the 1700s and 1800. in fact if i remember correrectly it was common for to pistol duelers to both purposely miss. and in american history i believe alexander hammilton intentionally missed arron burr, fireing a short in the air. burr did not hold his end of the agreement and shot hamilton dead......not sure why he would trust burr....doubt anyone who knew him would. also the fact that tordeskiold brought a ragelia to the duel suggest a reduced lethality even then. on another note it should be pointed out that if you an i were to duel today...if you won and run a foil into my stomach...there is a good chance that i would go to the hospital, have a chunk of bowel resected, get pumped so full of antiboitics that the sword could have been dipped in cow doo and not give me an infection.....all in all...i would walk away with a story and a cool scar. prior to peniclilin i would have a much greater chance of death...maybe not that day but in a week
where are you getting this info.....do you have a credible source...or is it off the top of your head. i am a family practice doc in the us.....while i dont work the er or trama bay....my experences in school would say different.....i dont have anyreal data but it seemed like a lot lower....whre gunshot woulds were way more lethal.(as were bad car accedents) some cofactors that my skew my view.....small city of 300.000. level 1 trama center....so it is good care... not too far away from anyone. and we only got the guys who made it to the hospital and me personally stabed in abdomine (hood), stabed in arm (hood ), shot in leg (gulf war 1) sharpnel in shoulder from rpg...(.somolia)...and im still kicking...noreal disabilityes exept a strange tingle in my arm when i get to tired or dehydrated.
Hi Mai Tai Talking about statistics, I think you should look at your own there. You seem like a bit of a magnet for metallic objects. Maybe you should stay well clear of them, lol. Back to duelling, I think you might find that terms of the duels are agreed by the seconds prior to the duel and to what level of recompense was required for honour to be restored. Not only that Duelling became illegal as well which might also account for the change in how it was conducted as it might get a bit difficult to explain away the death of someone. Regards Teddy Bear
the knife stuff was my own fault, a fool would say doin what you have to to survive in the steet. but a smart person would say being foolish, running with a crowd trying to prove you are hard in ny during the crack wars of the late 80s the other were from combat...in them instances i was one of the lucky guys....definely not a metal magnet then
Just curious if any of you have seen the saber attack victim video from down in Brazil that is making the rounds?!!. Even I didn't post it here at MAP because it's that gnarly. Wonder if I can post it with spoiler tags or a disclaimer?
Been on the wrong end of that nonsense as well. You usually never see the knife until it's cut you. Rarely seen folk waving one about unless they are just trying to intimidate you. Someone who wants to stick you will not let you see it until it's cut you from my experience. The city I grew up in, Glasgow, is considered the assault capital of Europe for knife attacks. Any skirmish you walk away from is a result in my book. Regards Teddy Bear
