The Cane as a Weapon

Of course. Shillelagh: the Irish fighting stick, by John Hurley. Here's a citation from the works of William Carleton (1882) describing a fight:

For the datation of the weapon, there is an account from the battle of Moytura in 1272 BC (mostly oral history), also from the account of the invasion of Ireland by Richard II in 1399 written by Jean Creton, there is also this picture, taken by myself last summer in Kilkenny cathedral on a Butler family tomb dated from 1507 clearly depicting a man carrying a bata (all the other figures also carried weapons as swords, pikes and axes): http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5905/gisantkg8.jpg. Thomas Gainsford also notes in his 1618's book The Glory of England, that Irishmen were using "..axes, staves, broadswords and darts." in warfare.

I think that's more than enough to support my point.

 

3 Seperate Weapons!

Hi Bear,
Yes, I see the thin walking cane of the bamboo or rattan type as more of a long range 'hold-out' weapon, used more like a whip or foil to distract an opponent before a savate 'Chasse' kick to the knee.

Whereas a solid walking stick would be used more like a broadsword (Anti-Pugilism) and with the Bata It's longsword "half-swording" or used like an axe.

Although they are all used for the same purpose (walking aid), I see them as 3 separate weapons, (the cane being the flimsiest and the bata the most destructive), they all require different methods / applications and it's great that there are people here studying all three .

Louie

 

wow.

I am seeing all the reasons why a cane should not be used and how it is ineffective in close ranges and the legal issues of the cane in the 21st century.

As for the cane; The Disabilities Descrimination Act of 2005 gives TOTAL permission for a cane to be carried in public without interference of the law.
It is against your civil rights to be questioned. God Bless British Law
(look it up!)
NOW, to clarify; it mainly pertains to a crooked cane. Not a skull headed coldsteel cane. BUT,a personal choice will be down to the maturity of the person having it.
Either way, you no longer need permission from your doctor.PERIOD.

Self-defense: The law CLEARLY states that when you are attacked,ESPECIALLY with a weapon or multiple opponents, you ARE allowed to use *whatever is at hand* to defend yourself.
Regardless of training or lack thereof.


So; combine those 2 things together, along with the pre-emptive strike;whats the problem with a cane?!
Nothing.

As far as all this training in Bhata or fencing or whatever; I have studied a bit of both as well as Le Canne de Combat.
I teach filipino martial arts. We specialise in sticks.
You can use a stick from any distance,including standing chest to chest with an opponent.

I know for a fact I can break someones hand with a plastic tube based on my training. I HAVE done it in a life threatening situation.
So swinging a cane at high speed or using it up close and personal is extremely viable.

So deal with it.
The cane IS legal to own,carry and USE if necessary!

The ONLY reason people really don't carry a cane is due to being looked upon as a **** by the general public and to be honest,they can be a bit cumbersome in todays street,especially at rush hour.
Not to mention,someone might take offence at just the mere sight and want to challenge. Any of those is a chance you have to take with anything when venturing out.



*Batter up!!!


Damien

 

I dabbled in a bit of cane fighting at my dojo some years ago.

I disagree that it is no good at short range, When used as a short pike it can penetrate most blocks with ease, a strike to the gut from close range will down an opponent without much power behind it due to the fact the end of the cane is a much smaller area than a fist.

You can also hold it like you would a quaterstaff, when held like this it is good for blocking as striking a cane hurts a lot more than striking an arm.

Using it like a sword is a nono except for a finishing strike. The reason being is that unlike a sword, the cane will have a tendency to glance off and be easily grabbed, also it is quite easy to grab hold of a cane when you can see the strike coming.

It is imperitive that you keep your strikes small and very fast (like jabbing movents from a pike) unless you can get on the opponents blind side, only then should you really go for a sweeping sword like attack.

In the above im referring to a cane that comes up to between hip and elbow height.

I have no idea to the legalities of using one in the street, the above is purely instructional. I dont claim to be a master of the cane, these are just a few things i picked up along the way

Phill

 

Thanks Damien - you beat me to it A lot of the Bear's comments seems to be about the illegality of using the cane as a 'weapon' whereas we are taught to use it for defence (which IMHO make a hell of a difference). Given the choice of a cane or a knife he'd go with the knife - but here in the UK you don't have that choice in everyday life.

Our teacher introduced the walking stick to our TSD weapons syllabus and considers it his 'weapon of choice' due to the fact it CAN be taken anywhere including aircraft. He even went so far as to give us each a stick of our own to keep

I regularly carry it on the streets of the North East and have never had any trouble for having it in my hand. Especially on the beach after my Yourkshire Terrier had been attacked by a Husky - now I take the stick as a 'target' for a stray dog as well as it's strikeing or pushing ability.

If I'm ever unfortunate enough to meet a nutter with a knife on the street then I'm in a bad situation - I would rather have my stick than NOT have it. A good all-round tool with lots of plusses.

 

Funnily enough I was out with a friend of mine last night who works for the police voilent crimes unit. His take was it's fine to carry it, if you use it and cause a fracture with the stick more than likely you will be charged with assault with an offensive weapon. Then it will be up to a jury to decide the ins and outs.
So yes under the DDA it's fine to carry a cane but if you use it and there isn't a clear case of self defense you will get a more serious charge. Which is pretty much what I have been saying. The police policy is that they do not want anyone in this country to carry a weapon defensive or otherwise. This is their policy in the UK.
I don't like it but I gotta live with it personally the day we don't need police is the day we don't need armed civilians. However, I would seriously suggest contacting your local police station for advice before wandering around with a cane and know what your local laws are and don't rely on a some guy on the internet because it's alright under the DDA.

The Bear.

 

Naturally, in a modern context, we are discussing the use of the Cane as a WMA civilian weapon for cases of Self Defense. The same caveats could be made of any weapon, or even bare-handed.

I don't think anybody who was advocating it as a "take anywhere" weapon was suggesting that it be used to innitiate attacks.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

Stolenbjorn,

Thanks for the welcome. Don't worry I am not going anywhere. I know some of the folks here, and they are good people, and are clearly "Cane-Friendly"

Is it the norm on this forum for me to give an intro somewhere?

Within the realm of WMA I have more interests then time, but even those things which I probably wouldn't take up even if I had the time, most certainly have a place.

Thanks,

-Chris Amendola

 

Hi Chris & welcome...

Feel free to introduce yourself here or start a new 'intro' thread if you like, it's virtually informal...

Louie

 

Contact

Jason,

Drop me a line, chris.amendola@gmail.com, I have some AC Cunnigham-related material to share....

-Chris Amendola