The American Infallibility Complex

Fair enough

 

My replies in bold.

 

I think it all depends on what you're comparing it to. Sure, if you compare American quality of life (measured in social safety nets, safety, quality medical care, crime rates, etc) to Danish or Swedish quality of life, yeah, we lose out...but almost none of the world lives in such conditions.

If you compare American quality of life to that of msot of the rest of the world (particularly China, Africa, and Latin America), we DO have dramatically better quality of life. Yes, some people in rural African villages have a happy day-to-day life...right up to the point where prevntable diseases kill their children or half their village is massacred in a tribal ethnic cleansing campaign.

I tend to be pretty proud of America, despite our flaws. This is a country where you can rail publicly about how corrupt and awful the government is and you never have to worry about the government retaliating (hell, half the country called Dubya a fascist and now the other half is saying the same about Obama, and I don't see them being jailed like a certain all-female punk band in Russia). This is a country where there's incredible possibilities for social mobility. My great-great-grandparents endured horrible, violent persecution in Russia. My great-grandfather fled to New York. He learned to speak English (never could read and write in anything but Yiddish) and opened a shop. He sent his son to Yale University; his son grew up to be a doctor. And this isn't a one-in-a-million event; it's a pattern you see frequently today, particularly with immigrants from east and southeast and south Asia.

America is a country where an African-American can be elected president, a Muslim can be elected into congress (Keith Ellison), a gay Jew can be repeatedly elected to Congress (Barney Frank), and an open lesbian can become a general in the US Army (Tammy Smith), and an Arab-American can rise to the level of four-star general (John Abizaid).

Does America have flaws? Absolutely. Every country does. But there's also a lot of really wonderful things about being in America. There's certainly something to the observation that you frequently see people risking their lives to try to enter America (whether they're coming from Cuba or Mexico or China or Africa) but you almost never see people risking their lives trying to leave.

That's not true. If you look at honor killings of sisters/daughters/wives, female genital mutilation across Africa, denial of right to vote or even the right to drive...American women are far better off than women in much of Africa and the Middle East.

Then why is public sexual assault frequently used as a tool of political oppression for women taking part in the protests in Tahrir Square? Multiple female reporters from Western countries were publicly sexually assaulted while trying to cover the protests, and who knows how many women taking part in the protests were subject to the same?

 

I agree with everything and strongly feel the same way as well. And on this note, I also want to correct myself in my previous post concerning health care. Many of these countries don't have the proper technology to deal with deadly diseases like we do in the U.S. But overall, you've touched on what I'm also pointing out (without as much of an emphasis on how great the U.S. is since it's counter productive to my OP).

 

do most americans think they're number 1? or is it just some kind of stereotype that we're all more than willing to go along with, because it sounds good.

the people i've met from all over the world think their people and their country is number 1. talk to a russian about russia. talk to english about engerland. plenty of countries have their schoolchildren recite their equivalent to the "pledge".

i'm not saying "nationalism" doesn't exist, or there are times when it's more prevalent than others (see ww i). i just don't get how americans are any more guilty of it than anyone else.

saying all this, i'm very proud of my country. and i love it's people and the land. but i don't see how we're any more nationalistic than anywhere else.

 

I don't know Giovanni, most of the world isn't talking about how Russians think they're #1, or the Brits, or the Arabs, or the Australians. Why does the U.S. have that reputation? Not denying that others tend to feel that way, but how can you deny that the mentality is far more extreme here?

 

Because we're the dominant world superpower right now and thus attract more negative criticism than countries who aren't. People said the same about British arrogance back when the sun never set on the British empire, and people will start talking about "Chinese arrogance" once China replaces the US as the dominant world superpower.

 

Because we meddle in the affairs of everyone else, preaching honor and dignity while doing the opposite (not always, but often) to protect our national interests. We have the spotlight currently.

edit: I have the same opinion as Mitlov really. I just like to step on the negative side of looking at things : P.

 

The US media is everywhere though, so you'll see/hear the patriotism more. Finns are some of the most patriotic people I have ever come across...but you're not gonna hear about it as I guess you don't get a lot of Finnish chat shows in the US.

 

I was gonna agree with Mitlov (still do) but tend to feel more at home with Ero's response. Great points from you both and given that, I'm sure that's been done all throughout history. But with that said, isn't it up to us individually to stop believing that?

You know those news articles posted on major media outlet websites where people can leave comments? Have you ever heard the opinions of many of us Americans in the articles concerning foreign policies? It's outrageous. Granted, I've encountered many people like that in person too, but people are much more free to discuss their actual views online than face-to-face from my experience. I guess that's the point I'm making, that many of us are still guilty of it. Heck, I used to be more guilty of it than most people.

 

Really? Hmm, that's interesting. I'd be lying if I didn't say this was my first time hearing that.

 

i understand what you're getting at. and i like mitlov's explanation quite a bit. and just because fox news throws flag-bling on the screen, doesn't mean all americans think that way.

for myself, i just think there's many, many great people the world over. and this is why i'm not arrogant about my country, even though i love it here. one minor example of many, my wife and i spent our honeymoon travelling through morocco for ten days. we went all over (marakesh, casablanca, fes, essouara, the mountains, berber areas). i can honestly say i've never been received more warmly, and as a total white-boy stranger, than i have in that country. some of the poorest people in the world at altitude close to the peak of toubkal would invite us into their home just because we were walking around their village.

 

Something interesting about that. Look at a Youtube video of Obama. Anything really, just type his name in and click a video. I'm willing to bet that you'll see a green bar saying there are more "likes" then "dislikes." Then read the comments. Nothing but trash talk and hate. Then look at who got voted in. So is America filled with people who hate Obama since the most of what you're seeing is hateful rhetoric in the comments? Clearly not.

Speculate whatever you want from that, but my opinion is that we hear those who think they should have a loud voice because of what they feel emotionally and there is a significant amount of them in positions to get their message to large amount of people. Since that is obviously a minority, I don't believe that this "nationalist/elitist" attitude represents how the American People as a whole actually feel.

 

It's a common complaint from ex-pats (I'm one). Everything is better here...from the health care system, education...to coffee, the water, porridge, bread, countryside.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying USAers aren't patriotic, less or more than other people, I agree with some of the other posts that other countries are equally as bad. Although I disagree with the comments about Russians.

Have you been to Japan to learn ninji stuff yet...?

 

I was actually going to nominate Armenians as the most patriotic people I know. Every Armenian I've ever met is truly jingoistically proud of their country, to the point of making some pretty absurd assertions (the best being that Notre Dame cathedral basically was just a collection of plagarized Armenian church architecture).

But because Armenia isn't a superpower, most non-Armenians find Armenian jingoism "charming" instead of "obnoxious" or "threatening."

 

My sense is that lot of the US is #1 is perhaps derived from the post-WW II period. Europe was war torn. Japan, Korea, and China shattered by war. The US had a thriving period of industry. The Cold War was in full swing so it was important to the national mind set to believe that idea. It burned into the national conciousness in a sense. A sentiment such as this is hard to let go of after it has been ingrained in a couple of generations.

In the meantime, other countries caught up. There are countries that surpass the US in many areas. Check out "The Most Honest Three & a Half Minutes In Television" on Youtube. It's a good monologue from Jeff Daniels from some HBO show.

There's nothing wrong with having a sense of national pride. It should be rooted in a sense of reality.

 

Don't confuse patriotism with nationalism. You can still love your country without ignoring the ugly sides of it. That was what always annoyed me about Fox News during the Bush years - if you criticised what the US was doing, you were unpatriotic, which is nonsense.

If your spouse is an alcoholic, does your love mean you have to turn a blind eye to their drinking and pretend that it's ok?

 

Well, there's no question that for most of the post-WWII period, America WAS #1 in both economic and military might. Military might is still definitely true today, and I think we've still got a lead on the EU and China in terms of economy, though I'd have to check the numbers. We're also probably #1 in terms of free speech and freedom of religion. I was shocked when I heard that Holocaust denial was illegal in much of Europe, or that Tom Cruise was barred from entering Germany because he was a Scientologist, or that Jews were barred from entering Saudi Arabia even today. We're also probably #1 in terms of tech advances. Whenver you hear about deep-space exploration probes or Mars rovers, they're USA-based. And the world's three biggest tech giants (Microsoft, Google, and Apple) are all US-based.

Are we #1 in social safety nets and public health programs? Nope. Are we #1 in rural friendliness? Who knows, but probably not. But there's a number of areas where we are, in fact, #1. So it's not complete bluster.

 

because apparently the only place to get high-quality ninja training is indeed japan. (got that from the ninja's forum)

 

you could just start drinking while you're at it.

AMERICA!!! YEAH!!!!

what you mention always bothers me about conservatives in general. if you don't agree with them you "hate america" kind of nonsense.