Thai's vs Westerners

Its accepted that the Thai's are the best in the world at the art of Muay Thai, and usually with good reason.

My question is, are the Thai's the best at what they do because the training is superior than what is offered in the West or just because they, usually, have a hell of a lot more experience in the art?

By that, some Thai's have records with over 400 fights and have been training since a very young age and competing, in Full Thai rules as well.

This is not to show disrespect. But since we usually put them up on a pedestal is it always justified? Surely there has to be gyms else were in the world with the quality of training as good if not exceeding some, maybe even a lot, of gyms in Thailand? Especially if the trainer (a westerner) has a huge amount of experience.

Just thinking out loud, obviously when we direct someone to go Thailand there is more than one reason to go but say if the sole reason was just to train Muay Thai, why do we never mention anywhere else?

EDIT: Would their situation for doing MT also help, since its usually done out of poverty rather than for the enjoyment?

 

Are they the best in the world? I don't know. But they do field a greater number of skilled practitioners simply by sheer volume of citizens training in the art.

A bit like how Korea teaches Taekwondo to every school kid in the country; with millions of people training, you're bound to have more fighters of a high skill than other countries that have fewer practitioners. Law of probability and all that.

 

Na van zandt, they definately are a level above most everyone else in the world, there's no doubt about it. look at how many people train in thailand and compare that with how many people train all over the world and you'll still notice that the thais make up most of the worlds top thai boxers. This isn't just law of probability.

I can't however say that the reason is because thais are inherently better than other people. The training they do is superior, yes. They start mostly at a young age so have a hell of a lot more experience by the time they're adults. Not only that but as SOON as they start training they're training alongside people who're extremely experienced and skillful as well as being coached by people who're extremely experienced and skillful.

Many thai camps will start the day with a 10km jog as a warm up, half an hour skipping, half an hour shadow boxing then 5 x 5 min rounds padwork and 5 x 5 min rounds clinching etc. Obviously the details change accordingly. They then go and have breakfast and a rest. And do another work out in the afternoon that's usually about 60 - 70% of the workload described above. Couple this with the fact that they do this almost every day a week. and you already have a head start.

It's also an experience to have a good thai trainer hold pads for you - most western coaches just can't compete with the skill level of thai coaches. Largely because most of the coaches were once top fighters themselves and now coach current top fighters fulltime every day.

I do think that the thais are the best, but not because I hero worship them in particular, but because they do so many things that we, as westerners don't have the opportunity or desire to do. Also, I personally think the only reason some westerners do so well against some top thais sometimes is because of attitude differences. A lot of thais are going to be fighting every couple of weeks and can't afford to pick up injuries in a fight whereas westerners tend to always go in with an actual fight mentality. Although that's starting to go slightly off topic I think it's just another demonstation of how far above westerners the thais generally are in skill.

 

Good points. Many of the UKs current crop of up and coming thai boxers all started fighting young - many of them often travelling to train and fight in thailand and it's obvious that this has had an effect on their skill and experience level. It clearly shows when comparing the skill and mindest differences of children from a lot of similar striking arts that don't allow them to fight full contact or with as complete a ruleset.

 

Excellent post bro

 

Master Betty nailed it....

 

Cracking post.

Do you think (not directed at 'you', a general you) that there are gyms else where with this level of training, open all hours, training multiple times a day with experience trainers and fighters? Or is the western world a few years off getting to a similar sort of level?

It would be nice to see if the world catches up with the Thai's but as you pointed out, and i fully agree, the fighting every other week would mean the mental aspect of 'our' fight game would need to change.

 

Westerners are deliberately put at disadvantages when trying to catch up in traditional Muay Thai in Thailand. That's what holds them back.

The Thai fighters excel because they've had the situation put before them where they can study the style full time for many years whilst earning a sustainable income from their fights. But few Westerners have the know how to get themselves into this situation themselves in Thailand, and the situation does not exist in other countries.

Meanwhile, those who deal with the Westerners in Muay Thai in Thailand are constantly closing the doors. Favoring instead of traditional Muay Thai to set up only short term, high expense, unsustainable programmes that amount to a virtual rip off in Thai comparison designed only to empty white pockets on short term, quick return holidays.

The unwillingness of the major stadiums to set up what would be an explosive heavyweight division is also another strategy to keep foreigners as underdogs in the sport. A selfish move by the military and greedy Thai upperclass to protect their nationalist pride and identity as powerful fighters from the high potential Western men who'd dominate any Thai heavyweight division and be able to set up full time, high profile careers in the country.

But for those who've got the drive and general common sense, you can avoid the rip offs and disadvantages by trekking your way into the tourist free areas of Thailand, where you'll find welcoming people and gyms willing to take on long term Western trainees for absolute free and help you set up that long term career that will make you just as powerful as any Thai fighter.

It's an uphill battle, but it can be won.

 

I do not believe the Western world will ever achieve that sort of level. There are gyms of Thai equivelant scattered throughout the world (Japan, Australia, America, Europe), but they exist due to only high end K-1 fights and are at most out of reach to the average aspiring fighter.

The situation in Thailand is similar to the Rare Earth theory. It's very unique and quite fragile, also. It can't really be reproduced in other places in the world. There's just not the popularity and enthusiasm for the sport to support full time fighters and their training.

 

I agree with pretty much everybody but Thai boxing is awesome and I really wish it was at least half as popular here as it is over there.

 

I love watching the Thai's fight. Even the ones you get over here. You're always waiting for something special to happen.

 

Lower weight thai fighters are fantastic and the exteme training starting early definitley helps. However, open the doors up and allow some nonbiased people to make the match ups and you would see that European, Australian, American, etc. are not that far off. Then as pointed out earlier if you had a heavyweight division it would be completely owned by foreigners in Thailand. So really the gap is not that great but there is a gap!

 

Don't know of many western thai boxers could get anywhere near a Thai of the same weight.

 

You might be surprised that there would be a number that will rise to the occasion! Of course there has to be good money in it! I agree that in the lower weights the Thais are better right now. However, I do not agree that the gap cannot be shortened significantly and or that a non thai would not be successfully able to win. We are not talking about a genetic advantage in playing Muay Thai but instead a training advantage. So get some great athletes who are interested and motivated with good money and I imagine you will see that the gap will be pretty close!

 

The majority of Thais can find a decent pound for pound match up with a foreigner. It's only when you get to the championships where it thins out so much. But there's been a few. But like I said, disadvantages.

 

Yes, the Thai are the best. You may find an exception here and there but in reality they are the best. Why? Well, first, they train for real. What most people call training in the west is child's stuff for the Thais. The only people who train even close to the level of the Thai are professional fighters like UFC fighters and professional boxers (obviously not talking about training MT but training intensity and quality). People who train MT 2,3 or even 5 times a week for 2 hours a day still don't train what Thai fighters train in 2 days.
Secondly, how many times western MT practitioners fight a year? Most Thai fighters fight more in a week than your normal western MT gym guy does in a year.
Thirdly. they start very early.

These three facts alone are enough to explain why the Thai rule in MT. Out of 10 MT students in the west, only 1 would stick to it if coaches pushed them as much as they do in Thailand and the gym would be empty and business would go down.
Hard training plus more fights equals better fighters. As simple as that.





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I think the discussion could have ended there. Thais don't possess any advantageous traits that westerners lack. All that is happening is they have more highly skilled fighters because they've been doing it longer and there's no shortage of competition in the region. The sport is relatively new to westerners so of course as a whole they have less experience. It's only a matter of time, though, until the rest of the world starts to catch up with the sport's homeland. Koreans used to totally own at international taekwondo tournaments, but as time passed the playing field was leveled more and more, and now it's any country's game.

 

All valid points, except maybe the one about only mma and pro boxing being the only sports that train as intensively. One point that I feel really shouldn't be missed is that it is only a matter of time before the rest of the world catches up with the Thais, unless participation on the global scale significantly decreases. If the Thais do remain supreme for the rest of time it would only be because the popularity of the sport in the rest of the world suddenly declined. That's not too far-fetched of an idea though, considering the increasing popularity of mma. Every westerner how dedicates themselves to mma is one more westerner who is not going to beat the Thais at their game. If mma had become mainstream 100 years sooner than it did I'd bet that the art of striking in all its forms would be less refined than it is today.

 

I think that if the world had really adopted muay thai 100 years ago the face of martial arts would be a lot different. Frankly, most people would be better strikers.