Just a quick topic, is it wrong to teach a convicted personnel M.A. I have no greviance's about the matter as they have usually paid back to society for said crime committed. Obviously checks do go in place, and usually honest truth is the best notion, just wondered if any other Instructors came across such a Taboo.
Convicted of what? Shoplifting when they were a teenager? ....or raping a teenager when they were an adult? And how do we determine that a certain individual has really "paid back" their debt to society? That might be difficult for everyone to agree upon. If everyone convicted of even the smallest infraction of the law were to be expelled from the Bujinkan it would become one of the smallest martial arts organizations in the world. Honestly, I would rather put a potential student through a basic education level test....just to make sure that they don't constantly place capital letters on words when they aren't necessary ( i.e. "taboo" )....or pluralize Japanese words such as "ninja", "dojo", etc. - Mark Spada
Well In That Case...... More of the lines of GBH, ABH, arsonists, the petty stuff depending where you come from. Obviously murderers, rapists and sex-offenders are a no-go, also that most will be still inside (prison) unless its the British government then who knows. Even terrorist are set free depending if your worth anyting to your fellow countrymen.
Well In That Case...... More of the lines of GBH, ABH, arsonists, the petty stuff depending where you come from. Obviously murderers, rapists and sex-offenders are a no-go, also that most will be still inside (prison) unless its the British government then who knows. Even terrorist are set free depending if your worth anyting to your fellow countrymen.
GBH, ABH, and Arson, are more often quite serious crimes. But given the self defence laws in the UK, the first two may be defensible. I would always err on the side of caution.
nope. I wouldn't teach anyone with those type of convictions against them. "Hi, I've hurt people before, and now, I'd like to learn a fighting art so that I may hurt people more effectively." no thanks
Rubber Tanto posted I think you need to put things into perspective. An ABH charge could be simply giving someone a split lip. Conversly a GBH charge could be simply getting into a fight with someone where their attacker falls over and breaks a leg (Actually case). Also remember that section 18 GBH and section 20 GBH are very different. I havent been on the forums for a while as have been busy taking my City and Guilds in Conflict resolution management (trainers award) and physical intervention (trainer award) so that I can teach SIA training courses for security guards and door supervisors, and what I can say is that people are applying to the SIA with criminal records everyday for their licence and receiving them and I would as far to say that there are even people in the police force that have criminal records. The reason for this is of course that we have a rehabilitation of offenders act which companies must/should adhere to, and in this regard so should Martial arts instructors. Although it would be intersting to know how the martial arts instructors vet their students before joining their classes. Garth
Is it not ironic that people with criminal convictions are not permitted to train in an art derived from the practices of assassins and thieves.
Thanks for the input Garth, It was I question I have been asked a few times " I'd like to train but I have a criminal record". The whole idea of being into M.A for discipline and to better ones self is a way forward to me anyhow and denying these people an opportunity to do so seems to go a miss. Anyone these days can get a ABH or GHB along with an ASBO for fun. We have a Questionaire sheet, stating the obvious Medical Needs/ Criminal Record etc. The person could always lie and with the current Police Force in the U.K. I think they'd have more pressing issues as of late, than running checks for every M.A club within the U.K, unless they had a database you could access, but this would be against their Human Rights I can understand Rubber Tanto's views as well, but if someone is going to repeat an offence, then there is nothing we can do apart from not to let them train.
Is this some socialist "Rise Proletariat!" message about how all nobles are scoundrels and therefore arts that come from the bushi class are evil? In other news, welcome back garth!
Nooo, it is what it is; an observation that banning murderers and thieves from an art supposedly derived from the methods of murderers and thieves is ironic.
What's ironic is that people are still clinging to those old misconceptions, even after we've spent more than two decades attempting to clear them up.
I think the question is an interesting one, and hopefully is indicative of a person who shows a sense of responsibility to the community around them - this being a double edged sword where on the one side you have to make sure you are not empowering or increasing the effectiveness in future crimes, but on the other you are doing your best as a mentor and teacher to bring people back onto the right track. I would say it depends on your style of teaching (and how that matches the felons personality) so it is a little case by case, but if your Dojo has a strong Ethics based approach to your art then instilling this in an environment that has comradeship and goal setting should be a positive thing - on the other hand if it is a large organisation (one club I've trained at has over 1000 active members) then it better have the right message running through it as the Dojo becomes a factory. It also depends on if you believe in rehabilitation of offenders (and the prison system if that was involved) personally I think that the system alone is not sufficient and change can only come from the individual, with a positive alternative lifestyle than where they first went wrong. For me, I would interview carefully and teach them, hopefully values and ethics and a way of getting something positive from life as much as how to break some old grannies arm... My only (upon quick reflection) blanket exception to this would be a sex offender, who I would not accept under any circumstances.
Manga posted Thanks Manga but I wont be staying. Just popped in this morning whilst trying to recover from a cold and saw the topic. Just thought i would point out that having an abh charge isnt one step away from being a mass murderer. Take care all. Garth
