I response to another thread I replied: It made me wonder if this was common across our art - or particular to individual teachers. Also any thoughts about the difference in damage would be interesting.
Ive already replied to the thread in general but ill do it again. We changed to the 45 deg fist a few years back. The explanation I was given was the forearm bones are alligned better allowing more power to be transferred into the target. Ive never heard of the vertical fist being used in TSD and I dont have a clue about the benifits etc of this position.
Ok, thanks for replying again... didn't realize there was a single response limit on this forum. What you posted is what gets me about so much of what's on forums... it's something that was heard by someone somewhere but that person usually has very little to back it up when questioned about it. :bang: That's not a dig at you by any means... it's just as of late I am wondering why people just go on to accept things without more real credible evidence behind 'em. I've probably done the same myself... but the more I train the more I take the time to really question why I am doing something a particular way... even though I may take my trainers advice at the time you can be sure that I check it in detail when I get a chance.... often I've found that trainers teach what they were tought and many don't have a clue as to why it's really done that way. Anyhow... thanks for the reply... and rest assured it wasn't a dig at you so much as it was a phenomena that I have been watching for a long time in the martial arts/ physical training communities. EDIT: I did see your response in the other thread. Interesting. Thanks for posting that... that's more what I was after. I wish the mods would merge these two threads. Thanks again.
OK - sorry - me bad Everyone is going to pile in on the other thread, and I started this more with the interest in other TSD teaching than the 'mechanics' that the other thread will produce. Just ignore me and I'll go and stand in the corner
To my knowledge we only use the horizontal punch. However in sparring i dont really worry about which way i'm punching
theres a specific way you all hold your fists when you are punching?? why can't you just hold your fist however you want when you spar??
In our forms, we use horizontal almost exclusively. However, like a couple others said, when sparring it really doesn't matter as long as you get a good shot in on the guy.
yep... I've been away for awhile so excuse me if this has been said: Taking away the circular motion of "flipping" you hand at the last moment before contact takes away from its Wing Chun roots (or so I'm told) the vertical fist, for me anyways, is faster and thus more damaging
Wing Chun roots? If you're referring to Tang Soo Do, you're mistaken. There are no Wing Chun roots in Tang Soo Do - the only kung fu in Tang Soo Do history in Northern Chuan Fa from Yang Kuk Jin. Also the vertical blast in Wing Chun is drastically different depending on the lineage of WC. Some use absolutely no hip and shoulders with the vertical blast. Most use the bottom three knuckles. It might be faster (which isn't definite either), but depending on the lineage, power and stability might be lessened. Just do whatever you want. The days of should do this and should do that and hold your hand like that and tilt your head x degrees while keepign a slight bend in your knee and your fingers clamped closed with .34894 mm space in between are long dead....
My opinion I have formed from experience. Horizontal fist - longer range, you can turn your fist over at the last second to get a better "snap." vertical fist - better power, you can keep your elbow in so that you are more resistant to grappling techniques.
I'd like to hear the basis on which you state those two contentions. Because from what I understand range has nothing to do with how you hold your fist (unless you're assuming a different specific execution with either orientation). I thought range was based on how much hip torque/shoulder torque you use, as well as the more obvious way of closing gap - by whatever accompaniment of footwork. As far as power, again, depending on what muscles you use with either orientation, how much hip and shoulder you use can also change the second statement. Also, the vertical fist generally relies on the tricep muscle solely if done without flaring the elbows out. And the horizontal fist uses both bicep and tricep... As far as grappling goes, if you are referring to ground tactics or submission wrestling, or even joint locking techniques, anytime you extend an appendage, it is vulnerable. Although if your elbow is flared, there might be more leverage to manipulate your elbow, however, not all grappling/join locking techniques require that.
This is what I have learned about punching, horizontal vs. verticle. Your wrist is more stable, stronger, when in the verticle, at least when you're hitting the heavy bag. However the horizontal has a little more snap, and the exta torqe, can cause extra damage to your opponent, or so I am told.
