Helo there. I just have been reading one of the threads, and I was very surprised to know that Bagua master Dong Hai Chuan defeated Yang Lu Chuan Taiji master, and Bagua was given official court recognition as Imperial martial arts #1, Taichi was #2. Is this real or a fiction ??????
Here's an archived discussion of this: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/search/topic/36377-1.html It looks like that probably never happpened.
I saw that one. And still, are there some proofs that Bagua master Dong Hai Chuan defeated Yang Lu Chuan Taiji master in this imperial tournament ???
not sure about that ... Dong Hai Chuan was pretty invinsible too .... but you gotta think ... why would this sort of battle occure?? Its more of a romantic idea created by students that an actual historical event IMO. This is also true of the meeting with guo yun shen of xing yi and Ding Hai Chuan. cheers chris
I don't know why would to prestigious martial artists want to duke it out? I mean, apart from prestege, promotion of their school, love of fighting, and to impress the ladies, what's in it for them?
I'll tell you what, over the weekend I will pick a fight with a Bagua player and will let you know the results.
Are you sure your not an MMA man? The amount of chest-beating drivel you come out with, you could do well there
Why thank you, but no, I'm not. It's just I've noticed that all good martial artists love to get on the mats and spar or wrestle. It's one of the high points of their day. Besides which if you profession is that of a martial artist/bodyguard it would do wonders for your reputation to beat in a fair fight as many of your rivals as you could. I'd like to think 'Invincible' Yang didn't get his name from sitting round drinking tea all day.
ha ha ha .... ok wrong spelling but there was still an 'n' in there .....it didnt say invisible These guys had more too loose than gain. Loss of face, loss of respect, loss of position in the court, loss of LIFE ..... No one is debating Yang or dongs fighting prowess ... just whether or not this battle occured. There are so many stories like this ... Dong vrs Guo, Dong Vrs Yang, Yang Vrs Wan Lai Shan, Yang Vrs Guo .... Who really knows ..... Regards Chris
BaGui I believe that Tai Chi, once mastered, is the highest level you can attain. Ba Gua is quite different, an amazing art comlimenting Tai Chi beautifully. It's not easy - but it would greatly enhance anything you chose to do in the future.
Qne more question. What are the major differences between Chen and Yang taiji styles. Which one can develop chi-power faster (it may sound silly, but that's what I want to know )???
It sounds like you're trying to make a choice. The real answer is that it doesn't matter. I did Yang style from a while, my experience was very good. It certainly one that I would try again. That depends upon what you mean. There are many different interpretations, there are also different forms and sources of power. You need a very good teacher, you must study and practice with awareness.
as many people will tell you if you are trying to decide upon a style what you need is a good instructor. riddle me this. why would a martial art have survived to this day if it was ineffective in what it set out to do? TKD as a military style is obviously effective enough to still see use, Karate, Tai-Chi and all these other styles are all obvioudly effective enough in the hands of enough people to be deemed worth keeping through to the present day. essentially what I am saying is that every style has merits, while they may not be the 'Best' they are all good and so it really comes down to being a good artist and the instructor, you clearly care enough about MA's to join a forum dedicated to them so all that leaves is finding a good instructor.
The fastest way to develop qi is by doing qigong. My personal favorite is the Buddhist School's Damo Yijin-jing (Bodhidharma's Tendon-Changing Classic). I think Bagua probably produces real fighting ability faster than Taiji and is generally more agressive. At a high level they are both extremely formidable. Despite both being lumped together as "internal," they are really quite different. The Bagua person tends to attack continually and from all directions. When they meet with resistance they simply change angles, hopefully dissolving or redirecting some of the opponent's force in the process. The Taiji person puts more emphasis on "listening" and never wants to attack first, preferring to "borrow" the opponents force and use softness and circularity to send it back to him. I know these are very broad generalizations, but I'm just trying to give a basic idea. As to Dong and Yang, I heard it ended in a draw. I read somewhere that Yang was asked by Prince Su to fight "an amazing eunuch that stepped as if walking on clouds and attacked with a bewildering array of attacks from all directions." Dong is not specifically named, but it certainly sounds exactly like him. This fight apparently ended in a draw. As to why they would fight, well, if the prince asked you to fight you fought. Even famous martial artists were way down the social ladder compared to the aristocracy. It was supposedly only because Prince Su specifically asked him to that Dong took on Yin Fu as a student. As to whether the two just put on a show for the prince and said "it's a draw" or whether they really both fought with the intent to win is anybody's guess. I would guess that they sparred awhile and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't be able to continue without someone getting seriously hurt. A draw, then, would be the best way for them to both save face (and for Yang to maintain his "invincible" reputation--a draw doesn't count as a loss ).
Bagua teaches a broader spectrum of advances to be used in emergency scenarios. At a high level the changes in structure become automatic. It is a very difficult art to master. Tai Chi is passive, lower level in terms of effort but highest attainable. The Bagua person tends to be manipulated into a weak position until his inner being is enlightened and takes control of the situation. The Tai Chi guy does nothing.
