Tai Chi and weed

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by slomojo, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    taiji, it also has many benefits, which we are not sappose to be discussing pros/cons of health risks to pick sides or promote it. it helps reduce gleicoma, make aids/cancer patients have hunger for eating, and allows them to cheaply reduce pain without a heavy addiction such as the opiet based drugs vicadin and oxycotton.

    some interesting articles, to justify reasons why people still use it as a medicine (non-smoke form, via vaporization, extraction or cooking):



    These drugs are legal, via prescribtion. However they are more abused then marijuana by teens and adults and have much more side effects. even arthritas and blood pressure medicines have more lethal rates and side effects then marijuana. it does help people with similiar simptoms, however many do not want the side effects, to pay 10x the price of what a replacement (marijuana) would cost, or find the drugs useless (such as vicadin which is less effective in some forms of pain killing).

    Back on topic: the way it is useful for meditation, is when you are not by others, are in a quiet location and are not useing weapons lol (as baikai points out, nobod wants to be next to a guy stoned with a sword, much less drunk either (which is legal?).)

    Also, as many others pointed out... it can have benefits at first but gradually cause a negative effect on your training. it is nothign to base your training on , nothing to give you new powers or what not... but as a recreational purpose, it could cause you to relax during intense moments, and is much better then causing a rutkus partying drunk:)

    it also offers people in poor regions to use it as an herbal medicine for pain killing (via food, since smoke is what causes the harm), as it has been used in asia!

    Lastly, do not knock other peoples beliefs other then your own. falun gong is illegal in china, which is nothing more then simple meditations, lol but that does not justify abusing its practitioners. being jewish in nazi germany wasn't the greatest thing either, so why support the ones whom are opressing them?

    sorry for the questions, but people need to think. is the only reason you think its users are scum or lowly because its illegal? why is something worse (alcohol) legal and ok(more side effects and addiction and abuse)? why is it ok for legal prescribtions to have horrible side effects, greater then marijuana, even if they make a worse subsitute for the same effects/medicine (such as opiets)?

    ps: marijuana memory loss, is caused and in common with side effects similiar to tobaco smoking. such as cancergen, but more importantly memory loss. so, if your smoking cigs and are ok with it, then remeber you may be as stupid someday as the marijuana smokers you ridicule or imagine, and have much worse cancer and a greater addiction.

    medical use information:
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Just curious... where did you get your numbers/stats for prescription drugs being more abused by teens and adults than rates for marijuana usage amongst teens and adults? :confused:

    Care to post the reference? :confused:
  3. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    i was trying to locate the exact article i read last week, i will find it, however try reading the articles i had linked in the last post.

    if i remeber correctly, prescribition drug abuse for teens went up 300% last year and was used greater then marijuana 0.o

    random info:

    this might of been the link:



    "Indiana rates for marijuana use are still higher than those reported in 1991 and 1992. For example, 15.6 percent of high school seniors surveyed in 1991 reported using marijuana at least monthly. The percentage this year was 17.8 percent, but that is down slightly from a year ago.

    On the other hand, almost 60 percent of 12th graders reported using alcohol monthly in 1991. It has been declining for several years and stood at 41.8 percent this year.

    "According to a study released by the Drug-Free organization in April, about one in five teenagers have tried prescription pain-killers such as Vicodin and OxyContin to get high. The 17th annual study on teen drug abuse found that more teens had abused a prescription painkiller in 2004 than Ecstasy, cocaine, crack or LSD.

    I think people need to look at alcohol, cigerettes and prescribtion drugs issues, problems and criticisms before having such firm arguments on an issue.

  4. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    as a meditationer, please if you use marijuana, do not use it as the reason to meditate or as your only means of meditating. you should learn to meditate for better reasons and if you use it as an aid, do not make it something your meditations and morals depend on.

    if we help others, are calm, relaxxed in our actions and are kind; meditation and peace will come easy in all your steps.
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Neither of these links showed or stated that prescription drug abuse was more prevalent than marijuana usage amongst teens or adults.

    This link also didn't cite anything in regards to prescription drug abuse by teens or adults as being more prevalent than marijuana usage.

    I couldn't find a link or source for the 17th annual study on teen drug abuse they site in the article. Id be curious to see thier definition of abuse of a prescription pain killer.

    I'd imagine that prescription painkillers are not nearly as popular as marijuana is simply by the fact that they're not nearly as easy to obtain. They also do not have the pop culture hipness that marijuana has.

    errmm.. that's a bit non sequiter... one doesn't have to studied exhaustively the issues involved with drugs like alcohol and prescription drug abuse to be able to have an opinion on marijuana usage.

    I think I probably agree with you though... a drug like marijuana carries a stigma for most people because of it's illegal status. I think much of the illegals status of marijuana has more to do with no government system set in place to be able to tax, control and profit from it. Not to mention that the alcohol lobby is incredibley powerful... they certainly aren't going to chime in favor of legalizing competition. Many of the arguements I see against marijuana are flawed... generally based on perception not reality.

    You're right alcohol is one that should be looked at a bit more carefully. However I don't see this ever, ever happening. It's far too culturally acceptable. It's got no social stigma attatched to it. In fact being able to get right ****ed is viewed as some kind of macho achievement.

    I think much of the issue of marijuana and the supposed 'war on drugs' is based on falsehoods and there are a gazillion underlying factors... not the least of which are employment (the 'war' on drugs employs thousands of people) and budgets - much of them being related to the Pentagon (eg. the use of the US military to fight drug traffickers in S. America etc.). :bang:
  6. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    well look at the statistics and right them down and do some research..

    10% is the average marijuana user of the total population, where much higher have tried it.

    however, use of prescribtion drugs is 10, 20, and 30% in some states of teens.

    if not, take the time out of your day and research it yourself, if you are going to have such strong beliefs!!!!
  7. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member



    research ritalin, opiets (vicadin/oxy), inhalers, ateral? (cant spell the speed name)...


    "Abusers of prescription drugs - 15.1 million people - exceed the combined number abusing cocaine, hallucinogens, inhalants and heroin, said the report by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University in New York.

    Of those, 2.3 million are teenagers, but youngsters turn to prescription drugs at much higher rates than adults do, the study reports."


  8. daftyman

    daftyman A 4oz can of whoop-ass!

    Apologies fro being a little off topic, but where did this 'fact' come from? Also, what is the point of the statement?

    I don't believe Cheng Man Ch'ing would ever have claimed that alcohol was beneficial to the study of taiji. He liked a drink, but was he an alcoholic? Personally I doubt it, I'd say he was human like the rest of us. Got drunk now and again, but never let it become a problem that would get in the way of enjoying life. As to the actual cause of death? I think it depends on where the source of the information came from. If you read 'Steal My Art' T.T. Liang was of the opinion that he died of poisoned alcohol! The Alcohol poisoning version I first read in a Dan Docherty site, and my guess is he did not have that information first hand, but recieved it from others. I don't think that Cheng Man Ch'ing was the most popular guy on the taiji block, so I'd not be surprised if people took the opportunity to paint him in a bad light, and try to belittle him. Happens all the time. Belittle great men, to try to artificially elevate yourself to a level above them.

    Finally, as this was meant to only be a very short post! I have read somewhere in one of the books in my taiji library, that drunk people tend to be more relaxed and less fearful. Essential components to good taiji. Unfortunately they also lose control. So while they may be more relaxed and less fearful, they'll not be able to make use of the fact!
  9. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Where did you get this information from Pgm? It's the opposite of everything I've ever heard. For example http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1068625.stm

    By the way, some excellent posts there TB!
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2005
  10. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    pete-e, it has been studied to show better eye sight (specially for gleicoma patients) because it reduces the pressure in the eyes. it also can increase concentration for some people (while also decreasing it for others!!!).

    however, norml.org had shown how it was both positive and negative! not everyone is effected the same, and driving probably worsens on average. however, even the ladies done in one of these studies said laughenly "i can see better while driving, but i dont think i'm sober enough to drive!" lol.

    the way i see it, is if the marijuana wears off, then they no longer can see better lol or have the concentration/focus/relaxxation . some people need it to calm down, but this is a reason why it should be prescribed and not recreational, so it is used when it should be and not just for fun!

    the way i see it, opiets are legal for pain medicine, but marijuana is not for the same, even if they cant eat from aids, or are in severe pain from cancer and ms.

    lastly, there is
    "stoned i can drive"
    "stoned, oh crap i cant even get off the couch. you kidding? i'm not driving!"

    think of it like drinking. there is a reason why their is a blood alcohol limit correct?

    do you hate every drink whom drinks 1 drink and goes home? or do you love him as much as the guy who drinks 20 beers then drives home?
  11. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Jroe I've just had a look at norml.org. Even this site with its very pro-cannabis slant includes a 'No Driving' statement in it's 'Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use' (http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5448).

    There may be degrees of impairment but as things stand, the only way to measure that is subjectively - and how many drunk drivers have said 'but I felt OK to drive' after they've killed someone?
  12. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    It was an American study, I'll try and find it.
  13. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    norml.org is pro-marijuana but it has very good reasons, explanations, arguments, articles, research, political information and news.

    also, remeber folks that in the US, it is illegal to do any research that shows positive effects of marijuana (at least to be funded or studied in a college). however, it is legal to show negative effects and give false statements on why it should be illegal.

    that is also why much of the studies and new medications are discovered overseas.
  14. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    Lets assume we are talking about 'functional' psychoses like schizophrenia rather than organic ones like dementia (although the distinction is increasingly artificial). Genetics, life experience, brain insults all either result in particular trajectories of neuronal development or trigger neuronal dysfunction and disorganisation, resulting in symptoms. The micro architecture of the brain, particularly in the left temporal region, is subtly disorganised in people with schizophrenia and there are other brain changes as well. It is not absolutely clear whether observable brain changes are the cause or the result of psychosis, although it appears likely that they predate the development of florid symptoms. The abnormalities of dopaminergic transmission may represent the attempts of the brain to adjust to internal disorganisation - perhaps trying to 'drive' information through certain pathways - or in some cases may be the result of abnormal/dysfunctional genes controlling dopamine receptor production/function. Remember in addition that there are a wide variety of other neurotransmitter, neuromodulator and hormonal disturbances recorded in schizophrenia and increasingly in other psychoses. Attention has focused on dopamine because that is one of the neurotransmitters we can investigate and have drugs that we can probe the system with. However, to say that psychosis is 2ry to dopamine dysregulation runs the same risk as saying headache is due to lack of aspirin. Dopamine certainly appears to play a part, but it is not the whole story, and dysregulation may well be a consequence rather than a primary cause.
  15. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Hi Yohan, I'm glad you found it interesting.

    I have heard references to this info in several texts, but nothing very in depth. I came to the conclusion that I posted by using the five elements theory to analyze the effects of 'weed' on the mind and body, and through experimentation, and discussion with people more knowledgeable than me in TCM.

    EDIT: Thanks Nick..
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2005
  16. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    my sifu has discussed this on a similiar line in class before. thats why i wish it was legal sometimes, so it could be better regulated.
  17. littlewarrior

    littlewarrior New Member

    yes i have an experiance with that and its called being bloody stupid firstly your reactions are slower, 2nd your mind tells you your body is relaxed when infact the smoke poisons your muscles causing them to tense and paranoia causes you to have uncontrolled reactions which could result in the person doing something really stupid my advice is dont do it its not worth it
  18. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    i've never been paranoid while meditating on it, or crazy. i find it relaxxing a times but to disturbing at others.

    the truth is, your better off just meditating without it, and if your on it, try meditating:) lol
  19. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    So how come you thought that post was about you? LOL :D ;)
  20. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    hehe. oops! i just am sick of hearing of peoples generalizations or misconceptions, or how they think all people who smoke it are criminals, crazy or misfits .

    im done posting about it:)

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