nope, my instructor actually called it 'the 25 kicks of tkd'. we used to form a circle around the room, progress through each of the kicks as we all rotated around the room. the dojang was called 'the hapkido institute of self defense' located in aurora, il. addendum... this particular dojang was definitely more eclectic. we practiced judo once a week, did the aforementioned tkd kicks, and lots of sparring with pads. very different from where i'm at now, hyun's hapkido in chicago.
They are not the same, though, not exactly for the reasons that you might think. Lets take it a step at a time. First off, the kicks that we know to be the corpus of the modern Hapkido curriculum are not actually part of the original Korean Hapkido or even KWON BEOP. The Kicks in two of the three major branches of Hapkido, SUNG MU KWAN (now SIN MU Hapkido) and SHIN MU KWAN were taken from a variety of sources and added to modern Hapkido by JI Han Jae and KIM Moo Woong respectively to make the material more popular and marketable (see: KIMM He-Young). The pre-Occupation KWON BEOP cum Hapkido there are only a handful of kicks. In like manner the Japanese YAWARA which was added after the 2nd WW has only a small kicking catalogue, perhaps as few as ten or as many as 20. Secondly, the kick s are not going to look like TKD kicks for a number of reasons, some which have to do with my first point. Other factors include that the Hapkido kicks are not meant for sport asnd are used to attack and damage parts of the Human body as part of combat. Acrobatic kicking, however it is done is not part of Hapkido but is used to add "eye-candy". Even traditional TAEK KYON (see: Kim) does not traditionally have the sorets of kicking one might expect. The "kicks" are much more along the lines of pushing, tripping and sweeping than actually striking someone with one's foot. Lastly, I would encourage you not to believe the "hype". Korean MA are not the theatrics that one sees in the media. They are sound, pragmatic practices that are long on simplicity and effectiveness and very short on "pretty". FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
Last night I started doing spin kicks and from talking to the TKD guy my understanding is that he throws his 'like a baseball bat.' Everyone else put their hip in and didn't focus as much on hitting it as hard as they could but kept their leg more relaxed throughout the turn until the last second. They also hit it more with the back of their heel while he was hitting with the outside of his foot. It was very good for understanding what-not-to-look-like along side this-is-what-it-looks-like. Really emphasized some points. -Kraen
HKD Kicks are different from TKD kicks. Below are good examples Ji Han Jae's kicking style. Clip 1. 25 basic kicks [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttCUskF9v0c"]YouTube - 25 Basic Kicks of Sin Moo Hapkido[/ame] Clip 2. 10 kicks and spin kick which is way different from the above clip of the spin kick as well as most other kicks. The above clips is much more like TKD than HKD and they're doing other kicks not in the HKD canon of kicks. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruQiE27oTQ"]YouTube - Sinmoo Hapkido Clips 1[/ame]
Stuart, flying scissor head take down! You still got it! Just made my Monday brighter. Thanks, Dave O.
I would have to say from my opinion, the kicks in the video posted by Jeffkins are definetley not hapkido kicks for multiple reasons. 1. being that kicking anywhere that high above the waist is not Hapkido kicking, at least from my experience. 2. If you look at how he is hooking the bottom part of his leg I.E. the knee down, that is another sign of TKD influenced kicking. Hapkido uses the whole leg, and the power is generated from the hip, not the snapping of the bottom part of the leg. This is from what I have seen TKD style kicking. BTW, Dortiz I totally forgot that you were in Northern VA. We should try and get together sometime at a park or something and train. Let me know if you would be able to some time.
Michael, I would be up for a meet, greet and twist. This month is crazy but as we head in to summer we should make that happen. Is it ever going to stop raining though : ( Dave O.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttCUskF9v0c&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - 25 Basic Kicks of Sin Moo Hapkido[/ame] Is anyone else scratching their head why in every kick he's not protecting himself while kicking? His hands hang at his sides doing nothing imho.
Cant answer that but I do like that his hands are reacting anyway. His right keeps acting like he is blocking or grabbing. The safe answer probably is even if the intent is to highlight the kicks only, its best to always demo with hands in guard position. I have learned to take what I can from videos as its easy to critique everyone. Dave O.
This is a common question short answer is, this is the way Sinmoo teaches white belt level and blocking or fighting postures are introduced shortly after, no big deal. Another idea is the leg is longer than an arm and many of these kicks are leaning away or done at various angles that by their design keep one out of the way from a possible punch attack. Third people who know HKD fighting methods know we combine strikes, locks, throws, blocks, weapons, all together not shown here. Forth Advanced warning of a sudden attacks are rarely are given. In SD a you may be carrying something or holding a child's hand, etc.. you may have to kick with out warning or time to raise your hands vs sparring in class or a ring where everyone gets ready etc...
Sounds great. Just where abouts are you? I agree this month is crazy for me too. But I would definetely be up for sometime in June, with the exception of the last weekend as I will be down in Florida with Master Allen fo the seminar. After we work out we could head over to Il Mee buffet, or Sorak Garden for some good Korean food. It would probably be better to contact me through email as I am always forgetfull with checking pm's on here.
Valid points. I agree to a certain extent. I prefer to teach from the get go to keep your hands up. What if the student gets in an altercation before the belt that has fighting postures is introduced? Also even if there is a perception of "safety" from punches there can be no absolute guarantee. My motto is keep your hands up even if they're in a palms out "hey, I don't want to fight" gesture. But thank you for shedding light on the Sin Moo mentality of the how and why of the hands down.
Another part of it-- aside from isolating the kicking technique (which is what I imagine they had in mind when they made the video)-- everything we do can be initiated from the 'normal' stance. We don't need to get into a fighting stance to start our kicks. So our first reaction isn't going to get into a stance, then start doing whatever it is we're going to do. We can explode into the technique right away. When I watch low belts do kick/punch blocks, they're already in a fighting stance for the most part. When I watch high belts, they just about always start in a normal stance. Someone throws a punch and -boom- underarm fly. No second thought. -Kraen
Yes you are right on target. Reality self-defense dictates you fight from where you happen to be at the moment and most of us are usually just walking about naturally unless we're alerted in advance and have time to react or get in a so called fighting stance. We teach no hands at white belt to learn the motion of the kicks but it's really advanced tech., 2nd dan Sinmoo curriculum teaches using legs only with body movement, angling, etc... for SD. (no hands). Often people get so used to the dojang or sport training and believe that's reality when it's actually it's the fantasy world. Also since you mentioned it most of SM HKD is taught from a natural stance we have very little formal stances or a particular fighting position. What we stress is a lot of footwork and moving from one tech. to the next and the next etc... as required by the situation.
Maybe I'm missing the point here but isn't it always best to train in the manner that you would like yourself to act in real life? Wouldn't that involve having your hands up in some form or another? I just don't see the point in training your kicks with your hands at your sides. If someone is coming at you and you try one of these "25 kicks of Hapkido", what happens if you miss? My instructors would absolutely cream anyone who left their hands down whilst kicking. I know there's going to be times when you don't have a chance to get your hands up but you want those times to be as little as possible.
My point of view as well Romulus. I'd imagine bad muscle memory could possibly creep up otherwise. Imho the person in the video is training to keep his hands down. I agree with AHKD (never thought I'd say that ) that we can and should train as if we are unsuspecting i.e. hands at the side in case they are occupied but at the very least I would train to bring my hands up at the same time the kick was coming out.
We ALWAYS come to a fighting stance once the fight's initiated. We don't just stand there normally once things start moving. The hands down thing is just for initial reaction. We train kicks from fighting stances too. It wouldn't be weird (SMHKD wise) if he decided to do the demo with his hands up either. I still think he was keeping his hands down because they wanted you to focus on the kick. For the record I don't train Sin Moo Hapkido, I train Sung Moo Kwan (A.K.A Sin Moo):hat: http://www.khihapkido.com/about.htm -Kraen
