Taekwondo kicks = Hapkido kicks?

I keep on hearing that HKD kicks = TKD kicks here and there online. But it's been explained to me early on about how these are not TKD kicks. We have an ex-BBelt in TKD who can back this up and for him one of the hardest things to do is to kick the way we kick.

But at the same time whenever someone (online) says for ex. 'I do Taekwondo and my instructor mentioned to me that he's offering a Hapkido class as well. I know the kicks are the same. Should I go for it?' no one seems to say anything otherwise about the kicks. Which one is it? Or is it a split? If then, which kicking style's more wide-spread?

-Kraen

 

i think that there is a difference. tkd kicks do not equal hkd kicks.

 

I think this may come from the practice of some TKD instructors that bolt some self defense or wristlock/throwing techniques on to their system and call that portion Hapkido.

There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with TKD kicks, but there may be something wrong with telling their students that they are learning Hapkido when a large portion of what makes the art its own thing is not represented. At least that's my opinion.

 

when i did sin moo hapkido some 15 years ago, my instructor used to teach what he dubbed 'the 25 kicks of tkd'. haven't studied sin moo since, so i don't know how prevalent that is. but it seems like there is some cross-pollination in the hapkido community.

but again, some people will tell you that no tkd kicks are part of hapkido curriculum, period.

 

The way I had it explained was the purpose and way of doing the kick. Roundhouse for ex. is done the way it is in HKD so it doesn't give away what it is until the last possible second (front kick, side kick, etc. all start with knee straight up) while TKD roundhouse is used as a fake-out (go high, they block high, you strike low for ex.)

At my club we don't call the kicks by any certain 'group name.' Each kick is exactly that. A specific kick.

-Kraen

 

I've had students come over from TKD and the thing I see that deffers from the way I teach, was tought, is they all tended to snap their kick all the way locking their knees, I teach unless your hitting someting solid your knee should be slightly bent at the end of your kick to prvent micro-hyper extension, and they were not tought spin kicks until late in their training.

 

This is the exact same way that I was taught. Knee comes straight up and then you perform whichever kick is appropriate from there. The other main difference is for a spinning hook kick our leg is cocked until the last moment as opposed to the near straight leg of most TKD places.

The funny thing I've noticed is that in some ITF TKD that the kicks are exactly the same. Not in competition but when they are taught in class. Even if you watch the TKD revolution of kicking video. I found the kicking style to be almost exactly the same for the basic kicks.

 

Actually the knee doesn't go up, it goes forward.
This sometimes ends up in the knee going up as well, but you push your knee forward from your hips.
I am not a TKD practitioner so I have no idea how or if TKD kicks differ from HKD kicks. WTF-style sparring kicks certainly do look different from your average HKD kick. In HKD we don't kick with our legs, we kick with our body.

 

I would argue that the other way round. If the knee only goes forward you can have a front kick that will only be effective at shin level. If the knee comes up first you can kick anywhere. I've seen a lot of people kick with a low knee, even though it may be forward, and it ends up being almost sling like and very hard to pick your target area.

In an ideal world you want both. You want the knee up with forward motion and then the hips opening up and turning over to give greater range of motion and power.

 

I had trained when a little kid in WTF taekwondo sparring kicking techniques.
And learned that way.
Later on, practiced muay thai, and wu shu. The kicks are very different.
Now on my 30's, I had practiced WHF hapkido kicks. I don't know if there's a difference between hapkido schools (kwans) or styles (KSW, HRD, whatever "hapkido root" MA) in the way they kick.
But had seen videos the way many hapkido schools kick (for example, IHF Bong Soo Han's), and kick very, very similar as they do in WTF.
I think, that many TKD schools, had lost their original kicking purpose. Competition, as in WTF olympic sparring, emphasize speed for the point game, sacrificing power. Many, many WTF kicks are very fast, but weak... very snap-like. And they are also very circular, wide open, very "telegraphing" kicks.... only the speed, saves the technique, but again, speed without real power, in self defense... goes nowhere.
In these years practicing hapkido (at least, the way we do in WHF), I had learned control, but real power. With techniques very close or narrow spinning or round kicks (harder to stop), and to telegraph less or not at all (many kicks with front or lead leg, but with power)... many kicks are stabbing-like motion and with the front knee bend very high in front or forward the body... with the power of the hip, and with the purpose to "break" not to only reach and "match the point". In WTF, we used to do a lot of kicking to dummies, cushion shields, racquet-like cushioned objectives (also called palchagis, those manufactured by adidas for example) or heavy bags (at best). These years, I had learned to kick against a leather cushioned shield on a wall... you can't do all the momentum power and speed, because all that force to the wall is going to rebound against you... you need power, but controlled force, and mind focus.
Just some thoughts. Interesting issue. Best regards.

 

You can push your knee forward and lift it by doing so.
Any way, the movement starts from your hips (danjeon if you like), which you can push forward, and not from just lifting the knee. This would mean that you use upper leg power and not generate the power from your hips.

Although we do kick high in HKD, the advice is usually to keep your kicks low

 

exactly how my instructor teaches it. the feel of bringing the knee forward and up, at least for me, comes directly from my hips. it's almost like i'm reclining a little. not really, but that helps me visualize how to do the kick.

also, why kick high when a swift one to the knee is really all that is necessary.

 

Just want to point out that it is not a matter of OR, but of AND.
You can push your knee forward AND lift up. You can push your knee only forward.
But as soon as you only lift your knee up to kick, it means you use leg power instead of body power.
Hope this makes some sense.

 

I think we're all on the same track here. I've always had the importance of a high knee stressed to me but a the same time you do open up the hips to drive your momentum forward as well.

Like Klaasb has already said it is important to use the hips to drive the kick. Especially for keeping your leg loose and fast.

 

Okay, so the only places that advocate the same type of kicks are Taekwondo "+ Hapkido" places.

And from now on I can safely correct anyone who says 'I know the kicks are the same in TKD and.....'

-Kraen

 

Yeah it's often so hard. It's almost the same as when people say Hapkido is just a combo of TKD and Aikido. :bang:

I was even amazed to see in the Hapkido episode of Fight Quest that all the kicks looked WTF style except for the guy they trained with in the mountains (Master Chu I think).

 

Apparently over in Korea a lot of people who hold bbelts in Hapkido also have one in TKD. They also said that one guy was a 'double blackbelt.' Maybe that's what they meant and just didn't want to say 'Taekwondo' in the Hapkido episode.

-Kraen

 

Well I've never done hapkido, but if the kicks are like they are in this video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWLDdRrp_0&feature=related"]YouTube - Hapkido[/ame] which is entitled hapkido, then tkd kicks are very similar indeed.

If I understand what you were saying correctly then we often practice kicking so that all our kicks look the same to begin with, as to not tell what our kick is going to be.

And I am insulted by whoever said taekwondo practitioners don't kick hard. =P

 

I have never seen anybody ever ask for any type of '540 round' kick. I've SEEN someone do one and I commented on how "Taekwondo" his kick looked. And he said that's because that's what it is. It's also easy to spot when someone has had TKD experience. I know in my club TKD Kick does not = HKD Kick. But in that video titled 'Hapkido' there was more than one occasion where he did a 540 kick. At most we spin 360 degrees for any single kick or do any extra spinning AFTER we kick(Spinning round kick in video) ..I guess my original questions still stand.

-Kraen