Systema

I couldn't find a Systema section on Map

I've recently became aware of a Systema classes being held close ot where I live in San Diego. The only thing I know about systema is that it's Russian. I did some reading, but I would like to hear what people think about it.

Here's the place.

http://sandiegosystema.com/

In the instructors section located under the Systema classes sections it lists the following two:

-Ken Good - States that he has trained under a certain Vladimir Vasiliev.

(Wiki).

-Jeff Sodeman.

I'm interested. Anyone's take on the system? Does anyone know these instructors?

Thanks!

 

The only videos I've seen of it involve pudgy, out-of-shape instructors doing public demonstrations where they make their students scream and writhe in pain with super-special magic pressure points. Never a good sign. I don't know whether this is all there is to Systema, or whether the bad 5% get 95% of the YouTube play, but if you go, bring a grain of salt with you.

 

Vladimir Vasiliev was amazing. Systema used to be very cool.

Now though, couldn't say... may have changed or may not have changed. They certainly do things very differently from a japanese martial arts perspective.

 

Mitov, that's never a good sign. I decided to try a class out and see how it goes.

Simon, thank you. Although I would still like ot know more about the instructors.

In regards to a different martial art percepective than that of an eastern one, I've always had this interest in understand both concepts. It would be nice to see different approaches to the same concept.

 

Found this.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKfW2R6x_E&feature=PlayList&p=BD0439BAB2079065&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKfW2R6x_E&feature=PlayList&p=BD0439BAB2079065&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2[/ame]

Thoughts?

Hint: Watch at least up to 3 minutes.

 

This is from a MAP meet a few years ago, the last section involves systema training.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFFPUhjmsuQ"]Martial Arts Planet IMA Forum Meet 2006 - YouTube[/ame]

 

Here's my Youtube page which has a lot of class and training clips
http://www.youtube.com/user/perten

Ken Good is a former Naval Special Warfare operator at SEAL Team One and a very experienced guy.

There are n't any no touch knock out or "super special pressure points" despite what you may hear from some quarters. The training is a different approach from many oriental styles, there are some articles at http://www.cuttingedgeshop.com/media.htm that may heklp

cheers
Rob

 

The first two minutes were precisely what I was thinking of when I made my post. I would like to see him do some non-compliant drills with a competent and uncooperative opponent, not just public demonstrations with his students.

It appears that he is just poking people with his thumb and making them collapse. I'm not sold.

EDIT: I'll check out RobP's videos tomorrow. Like I said, I try not to judge an art by one or two snake oil salesmen on YouTube.

 

wow.. I can't believe that was four years ago...or that it's had over 10500 views (that's nuts)... and that I'm getting even more handsomer than I was then...

 

Here is a really informative and funny thread about Systema on Bullshido...

It has good and bad, but the misleading marketing let's it down big time (explained in the thread).

 

Thank you for that link. It was exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

 

Neither am I.

I'll probably drop into that place when ever I get the time just to see things out, but I'm going to stick to my Judo for now.

 

If you can get along there I don't think you'd regret getting some training in with Ken Good - it's not often you get the chance to train with someone of his background and experience.

http://www.progressivecombat.com/staff-kengood.html

Personally when assessing an art or an instructor I'd put hands-on experience above watching some clips or taking as gospel the opinion of some people who watched a video

cheers
Rob

 

Although his background and credentials are essentially, I was in the military.... which says nothing about his ability in Hand to Hand combat.

 

1st post here so I will tread lightly.
I read the forum rules so I will try and limit the outside links, but in this interest of brevity, I am going to have to point to a few so please forgive me ahead of time.

First and foremost, I can certainly appreciate skepticism, criticism and fact-based discussion. It's healthy and warranted.

To address a couple of points in this thread:

Giacomo:
My martial experience starts way before my time in the military.
See: http://www.progressivecombat.com/pdfs/ForceonForce-Drilling.pdf
Over the past 20 years, combative have been an integral part of our tactical training curriculums. Companies I have founded included: Combative Concepts, Surefire Institute and now Progressive Combat Solutions. Within our little training company, I am least experienced in the strict H2H portion of the curriculums.
I have trained in Kenpo, various Juijitsu Arts, a had few years of BJJ.
My compadres have a much deeper and more intense background in this area. However we compliment each other on multiple fronts.

My view on cage fighting as measure of "combative" skill:
http://www.progressivecombat.com/pdfs/TheCageReality.pdf

Mitlov and all:
I think is is mistake to determine the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the Systema approach and strategy by watching videos posted on YouTube or anywhere else. In fact, not knowing anything about Systema I would probably draw the following conclusion by simply watching vids: "It's BS".

Only when I felt firsthand and essentially found myself being pounded into the ground and not being able to do much about it or even understand why it was happening was my interest solidified.

I did not drink the Kool-Aid and somehow lost my critical thinking capacity.
When I first started exploring this approach, I was castigated by internet warriors from all points on the compass. To a person, I mean to a person, none of them had actually worked with an experienced practioner of the art or attended a seminar to work in earnest with those in attendance.
To me their opinion mattered little. I constantly told them: Go to a seminar with Vladimir Vasiliev, bring your friends, bring your video camera, bring your "A" game and show me how stupid the approach is. Then and only then do you have a leg to stand on in terms of making an informed decision.
Systema is not for everybody. I am perfectly fine with that and really do not feel compelled to spread the Gospel according to Systema. If it strikes a chord within, great. If not, choose from any number of other excellent arts.

Most of my life has been spent in some sort of fairly intense athletic endeavor in one form or another. Some of the most internally strong individuals I have EVER met come from the ranks of those training in Systema. Not everyone working within the Systema regime is physically fit to their own detriment. You may also keep in mind that a fat man or women can kick your ass, so don't underestimate opponents.

Anyway here is couple of pudgy, out-of-shape instructors doing their thing:
http://www.wheelersystema.com/martial-arts/video (Drop to the 3rd video - This is my partner in our training company)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLE1FqXPLJM"]BEYOND THE FIREARM 2 DVD "Teaser" - YouTube[/ame] (My other partner, Sonny Puzikas - Not exactly pudgy and out-of-shape - Yeah he is the same guy as recently seen in the "Deadliest Warrior" series.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz5Ixc3j5lc&NR=1"]New Systema Strength and Flexibility DVD by Kwan Lee - YouTube[/ame] (Kwan is not considered pudgy and out-of-shape by most peoples standards & I believe he has his degree in structural engineering and tends to think fairly logically)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m2k6JaHoPM"]YouTube[/ame] (Vladimir is simply demonstrating breathing, relaxation, movement and structural principles here - OBTW he is not pudgy and out-of-shape)

Other thoughts:
There are many really, really awesome martial approaches out there. Just because I elect to work with Systema does not give me any inherent advantage over the folks training in those arts. I have had my butt handed to me too many times to forget that. If you remember, anybody can kill you in the right circumstances, you will be less likely to be shouting from on high telling everybody what is going on.

Warriorofanart:
I am normally at the Saturday classes in San Diego. Please come down and at least meet the folks training there. It's not a challenge, it's an invitation.

Best to everybody.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good

 

Hi,

I just want to confirm if the classes are held at Jiai Aikido north of Old Town?

I might be able to come down there this Saturday.

Regards.

 

Confirmed.

We start at 10:00 am on Saturday. You should probably show up a few minutes early to sign in for the first time.

 

Sorry to chime in but I have a problem with things like your link, and I'm personally highly skeptical of ex military types teaching hand to hand combat systems and using their military background to give Kudos to it's effectiveness. 'the Spetnaz/Seals/SAS/Israeli special forces use this, so it must be good'.

Judging by talking to a few friends who've been in the military if you have to resort to unarmed combat something has gone seriously, seriously wrong. The people in our society who have to use unarmed combat skills on a regular basis and risk serious injury are the police, low level criminals, professional fighters, and doormen IMO.

I agree that MMA/combat sports training doesn't address fully the mental/awareness skills and tactics needed in 'the streets', but surely you can see that they have a solid foundation to work from?

Mental toughness, workable tools, positioning and a realistic assesment of one's skillset (due to it being tested) and effective blunt trauma to the head is something catered for in combat sports, and are invaluable in self defense training IMO.

Competent MMA practioner/teachers have taken the 'tools' that their training has given them and have applied it to multiple opponents, weapons and other self defense scenarios. Check out [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KAT5-OIxvA"]this weapons program[/ame] based on Greco Roman wrestling, and [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsLStyynEVs&feature=fvst"]this program for law enforcement[/ame] based around an MMA skill set.

 

I'd tread lightly, but to be honest, I've never really understood the concept. Systema people are not just sissies, they're also sissies who think that they're russian special forces hardmen. Yes, the original special forces people are serious hardasses who I wouldn't fight for a gold pig. But the legions of idiots who attend their classes are just deluding themselves. For some reason, the martial arts world is full of cretins who think they can somehow do better than a proper sporting martial artist by using 'secret tricks' and 'ultra deadly' methods. They are wrong.