systema-rtav maga-wing chun

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by roblen, May 6, 2013.

  1. roblen

    roblen Valued Member

    Hi all

    im now back into the swing of things with arnis and looking to add a second class into my week. being the perpetual student i want to try something new.

    my choices.

    1. wing chun- i know a lot about WC from FMA so i know it will probably compliment what im doing so no need for info here.

    2. Krav Maga- never studied it but now have 2 full time clubs near me in north london. its reputation as Japanese Ju Jitsu with pressure testing seems well established so i'll check out a class soon.

    3. systema-i know very little about it. what are your thoughts people? see the youtube and it seems to have been around for ages!!

    all thoughts and opinions will be appreciated
  2. querist

    querist MAP Resident Linguist?

    I guess the first question to ask is "how far along are you in your training in arnis?" How long have you been doing it, how close are you to being certified to teach, etc?

    I don't know about rankings in Arnis, so I really have no idea what they are.

    I would suggest that you have a good, solid background in an art before you consider picking up a second art, and I would suggest talking to your Guro before doing that, too, to make sure that he thinks you have enough of a foundation to handle taking on a second art.

    That's what I did. My sifu knows I'm going to start Taiji training and he has approved it. I didn't need his permission, of course. I wanted his advice because I did not want the Taiji to interfere with my Wing Chun, but my sifu feels that I have a sufficiently solid foundation in Wing Chun that he is not worried about it.

    Wu-style Taiji has similarities with Wing Chun (higher stances, small circles, etc) and complements it nicely from what I've seen so far. Similarly, I would suggest that you look into Wing Chun because of the similarities to the Filipino arts. The will build upon each other rather than conflict.
  3. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I don't see that any of them will give you anything you're not getting from Arnis.
  4. roblen

    roblen Valued Member


    i have been training in a variety of arts for 29 years

    jkd aprrentice instructor- bjj blue belt (got into that 10 years too late and am riddled with annoying low level injuries) a karate brown belt and some years now of boxing.

    within jkd i specialised in FMA and have just got into lapunti. so im more than sorted there. its a monthly class but i can train a lot on my own. so- im more than sorted.

    so back to systema or krav maga

    thoughts please?
  5. querist

    querist MAP Resident Linguist?

    Can you wrap up that JKD to become a full instructor? I am not familiar with JKD ranks.

    I still would recommend Wing Chun, but I'm biased. I know nothing about systema other than the name sounds like someone just made it up. It could be a legitimate art, but the name sounds hokey.
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    More BJJ at a gym where you can avoid injuries.
  7. roblen

    roblen Valued Member

    thanks everybody but....

    is there anyone who has some systema experience? or how about krav maga?
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Sorry, I don't have experience in either, but it seems to me that you have most of your bases covered. Krav Maga and Systema would (I would think) already be covered by FMA and JKD. If you wanted to do something unique I could suggest CACC or freestyle wrestling. That's about it though. xD
  9. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think you answered your own question when you said "pressure testing." I think people are reacting to the idea of duplicating material. I'm thinking that the krav (if run properly) will furnish you with another venue and another source of training partners to pressure test what you've been learning. I think the similarity in material works to your advantage here. There won't be the stylistic hangups you'd get elsewhere. You'll be able to test what you know.

    That's the way I'd go, given that choice.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    In my personal experience both are full of fantasists, and the training is generally poor, but exceptions do exist.
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Given that Systema has (from what I've seen from the outside) more depth to it than Krav, and that Bullshido slated Systema until some of their guys turned up and showed good form in a competitive event, if you're set on doing one or the other I'd say Systema.
  12. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    Roblen - if you want to PM me the Systema school details I can advise you if they are worth checking out or not.

    In general Systema will allow you to bring what you already have to the table, there is no "style" or moves to learn as such. For example in our group we have people with considerable experience in other styles alongside beginners. One aspect of the training is in refining what you have, teaching you to understand fear/adrenalin and how to work under pressure.

    I say in general as there are numerous systema off-shoots these days and it pays to look around
  13. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Was there a vid or write-up?
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Can't find it now.

    Maybe RobP or Hannibal will know where to look.
  15. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!


    Honestly if you want a more 'common or garden' practice then do krav maga. You'll 'get' with that easier. Because it's more of an 'overt' martial art.

    Systema's based on Breathing, Movement, Relaxation - Really it is. Not like you'll think you already know. But really.

    Systema has lots of things in common with things you'll have done before.
    BUT! It's unlike anything you'll have done before.

    I do a little bit of Systema with a friend of mine. He's a really good boxer. Worked as a bouncer for 10 years in the west end. And has a couple of black belts in some modern ju jitsu systems. He's been doing systema for 8 years now. I didn't fully understand why he'd do Systema, at first.

    You look at it as a an experienced martialist. And you think 'huh? What's that all about?' (in fact a lot of folk thought it was total crud)...

    But then when you get a bit of an understanding of what they're doing...You start to see that it's a really handy toolbox...If you can take your baggage and chuck it...(the problem is 'chucking' all you know and pressing 'reset').
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    One of my combat hapkido instructors did Krav for a bit of time, not long, but he liked it. The problem with any "new" system... really even the combat hapkido that i'm taking is that they are hit or miss.

    You can get a really good instructor that knows TRUE KM and you could get one who pretends... he knows the moves and knows the names, but he doesn't know the art the way he should to be an instructor. Meaning that he doesn't practice his own art when he gets home or looks to learn more about it.

    It's not always the fault of the instructors either, sometimes you have the ones who have a hectic schedule and are not able to practice as much as they would like, both of mine work normal work schedules and as the summer has come along their work has picked up. My Master instructor is out and waiting for surgery. That said, I get the lessons that I need though, luckily I have 2 instructors and one of them always makes sure that I get technique before trying to rush me through the next belt.

    KM has been one of those arts that once it moved from it's origins over to the advertised market of the biggest, baddest art ever invented... or so they would like you to think. The problem with that is that has become a watered down version, as many other martial arts have. In a perfect world I think we would all go study with a Grandmaster in Japan, China, etc. and learn from someone who's family has been involved in it for generations.

    I am in the same boat as the OP though. I'm in the CH, and i've paid for the next 3 months... of which I think I have 2 or 2.5 left. I'm going to give it my all so that if I decide not to continue afterward I can't say I didn't work at it. It's an effective art IMO, but the problem lies with the lack of being able to train enough. I used to box... for fitness mainly, but with something like that, I can shadow box, do bag work etc all day long with needing no one else there to train with me.

    To sum up this long, boring and probably worthless post... keeping things simple where you can train as much or as little as you want will determine how good you are. 2 hours a week or so of Krav Maga or to work on your Wing Chun punching, your own form of shadow boxing, recording and watching yourself to find defense holes or offensive opportunities... plus it's something you know which is more simplistic. You punch and you kick. I know there's a bit more to it than that, but you get the idea.
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  18. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    The striking mechanic in systema is really neat, and hurts like hell. One of my guys does systema and really likes it. If the training is good, systema contains a lot of really useful stuff.

    A good alternative to Krav is KAPAP, which comes from similar roots. Hard to find, but worth it.

    Best regards,

  19. mftan

    mftan New Member

    I haven't yet had the opportunity to get exposure to Krav Maga, but I have a little exposure to Systema. I found it very intriguing and it complemented my karate quite a bit.
    I would have no hesitation to learn more if time and other things weren't an issue.
  20. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    Niether. Boxing, judo, muay thai or more fma (like yawyan).

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