Have any other MAPPers competed in (or want to compete in) submission only tournaments? I have done two (gonna do a third next month) and honestly it is my preferred rule set when it comes to Jiu Jitsu competitions. When the rule set is sub only, the stallers who try to get wins by doing a single thing and run away, are forced to engage. It really promotes the finishing aspect of Jiu Jitsu which I believe is the true spirit of the art.
I like EBI rules. slightly better than sub only. There are other ones I like. Round Robin where you fight everyone in the division. It's something like 3 points for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a loss. Still IBJJF rules. Both better than sub only.
EBI is still a variation on sub only. That's what a lot of the organizations around here use, is EBI rules. EBI does have the best rule set. I prefer sub only to IBJJF as well.
while i appreciate sub-only competitions, i don't mind ibjjf rules. look if someone just gives you their guard, pass it and get points for it. i get what you're saying regarding appreciating the sub-only competition. but how do you get it's the "true spirit of the art"?
Because too many people get points and stall. They try to win based on points, but not doing a damn thing or getting close to a finish. The finish, being able to stop someone with a submission or a choke is the true spirit of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
what's wrong with getting points? if you get a knee on belly, that's a pretty dominant position and can use that to launch attacks, or escape. if anything, i think submissions are less "combat" than points are. and that's what i'm getting at. classic judo methodology is that kata, randori and shiai are all needed to get closer to combat. but none of those things are actually combat. if you're actually in a fight and get a dominant position, are you going to stick around to submit? or high tail it outta there? i get your stalling comments. but someone stalling just means that the other guy has the initiative. if that other guy can't do anything with it, then who's fault is it.
i personally love when guys pull guard on me in competition. it means they couldn't bring me down and they're scared of me. i can then work on passing their guard, which i'd rather do than be on the bottom. when guys try to stall, i just work on passing. i have the initiative. sure, if the time is running down it's hard to do it. but that's what guard passing drills are for.
Stalling is more a matter of having limited time to work, but then is having unlimited time to work "realistic"? I like that fact that there are different competition rules available. theres a interview with tonon from last year which says he enjoys ibjjf comps too as it makes him focus on things that arnt as common in sub only.
Yeah, you can't tell me sub only is a superior method and truer in spirit than IBJJF because many MANY guys will do things like give up mount to get a heel hook or pull guard. Both are not really a part of "true" Jujuitsu IMO.
i also like the rise of sub-only tournaments. just another competition format for us to watch, dissect and compete in.
It is though. A "superior" position isn't so superior if I can simply give it up and break someone's leg. The finish is the point.
Only if your finish rate is 100%, but then the inferior position is its own punishment to a degree (more so in mma or sd however) sub only is great for the elite or blackbelts, terrible for the whitebelts though.
Why is that DeadPool? Is it because you see the format's emphasis as being on finishing over position and that this mindset is detrimental in the early stages of development? Regarding the OP I personally really like sub only in concept but my actual game is almost 100% geared towards establishing top for strikes and back taking so I doubt I'd do well in that format... my actual submission attempts are really infrequent. I'm not competing at the moment but IBJJF rules would likely suit me more as I just like to sweep/pass and establish position.:dunno: I would definitely like to try it though. I really liked the EBI rules mentioned earlier.
Exactly KR, if at whitebelt you lose position to jump on poorly applied sub, and dont face the consequences because your opponant is also half assed it reinforces a bad learning stratagy.
Even back taking is quite rare for me unless it's gifted. I tend to like to side ride and hunt the neck/darce from north south turtle, else tend to look for turn overs so I can work from SC again.
I've started establishing a good knee on belly, they'll turn in and I'll grip an arm, or they go the other way, and I'll gift wrap/take the back. I don't know what it is but people give me their back quite often. I'm not a high finisher with chokes and I really need to change that.
The good thing about taking the back loads, is that it gives you lots of training time to keep the back and finishing from the back. Bow and arrow used to be my go to finish, but now I'm concentrating on nogi, I'm working on different things.
Funnily enough I tend to get back mount more in MMA because a) the standard of grappling with some of the guys is lower than the syraight BJJ students B) strikes force different responses and so the back can get opened up more rather than having to tease it out of a really tight defensive turtle by opening the knee/elbow.
Tournaments really don't mean anything much. Most everyone gets a trophy, full contact like back in the 60's is no longer allowed do to lawsuits. It used to be blackbelts knew what they were doing and were really a force to be reckoned with. Now you've got 5 year old black belts who 'know' the material but couldn't beat an angry cat if it attacked them. Even BJJ is getting watered down by a school starting on every corner. I sold my school because parents were getting mad that little Johnny didn't get passed to the next belt level because he couldn't do the material. It was more the everyone deserves to pass mentality. Tournaments don't really mean much anymore.
