Let me paint a picture for you all, Recently I was at a Bujinkan Ninpo dojo. We were doing some semi-ground work and my partner was a 2nd dan. After a minute I held what BJJ sudents call a full or top mount. The Black Belt replies "Oh you like this position" my response is "Hell yeah" as I proceed to throw controlled punches towards his head. I this point he attempts to horse bite (a grabbing of the skin) so I swing around into an arm bar and tap him out. A few minute later we find ourself in a simliar positon, however this time he proceeds to roll over and I get him into a rear-naked choke. After this he storms away and I joined another group and pair with a green belt who was a great partner. I only say this becuase this is a second time in the last week where I witness the stubborness of a black belt. Any black belt out there can tell me why this is a trait so common is black belts today?
No stubornness, Becuase it ended with him storming away and refusing to acknowledge what just happen.
I am a similar grade to the person you were partner'd up with & you would prob' get me in a similar way (i am not that experienced on the ground) - but i personally would want to learn from you - if you can do something i can't then i want know how to do it too.........storming off & sulking seems to be cutting your own throat.
There's a lot of Blackbelts that have managed to get where they are without actually fighting. So what are there motives for getting a Blackbelt? More to do with the prestige of having the belt and status within their club than actually being a good fighter. I'd imagine this person fits in that catagory, and instead of wanting to know their weaknesses and improve their fighting ability, they walk of and put it down to we down fight like that!
If there are a lot of blackbelts that get their rank w/o proving themselves in a ring, then you people need to leave that school and /or instructor behind and find a school that has blackbelts that can handle themselves. However don't make the mistake and think all blackbelts can't handle themself. Some of us don't teach prestige and status, if you test with us you better be flawless and prepared to spar all night if told to. You won't find what PGM316 is referring to in some schools. Not all systems are a blackbelt factory. Those type of instructors are a disgrace to ma.
This was not my normal dojo. I was around that area and figured I take in a class. I agree with you ptcruiser.
A lot of blackbelts like that would be worrying. But, most places I've trained at have had a wide range of abilities in their students. Even at good clubs I've still wondered why a few BB's have been there! Maybe its more the grading system at fault than the teaching? Another thing, most schools don't do full contact, especcially the more striking schools. Like the original post said, I also train with other Kung Fu people that are good standing but don't know what to do on the floor.....
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that all BB need to prove themselves, in or out of the ring. Granted, a fight would tend to test one's ability, but some people reach for that BB not wanting to fight. Their technical aspects may be above par and their knowledge second to none, but they don't want to fight. Is that bad? As far as the BB that you trained with xplasma, I'd say that he had some growing up to do. BB or not, that type of attitude has no place in the dojo. Some BB get upset when us lowly kyu ranks show them their mistakes. I don't train with them anymore. And won't until they mature emotionally. Others will take what happens as a lesson and realize they still can learn. From anybody.
Well, this is starting to look like one of two age old discussions. First of all, I am still of the opinion that there should not be seperate classes for higher and lower ranks. As most of you know, I train with Papa-san (Ed Martin) and so I was thrown into the mix from the beginning. My first class we were doing what some call higher level techniques, more specifically, attacking and defending from a kneeling position. Granted, there are some mechanics that you just don't know when starting out, however, I believe that the way Ed runs his classes help a student to progress faster. No information is held back from you because you are of such-and-such a rank. What reason is there for this? Ranks should be indicators of ones knowledge of an art, not something that gives you the privilege to learn more than others. Because of the way Ed's classes were, I learned extremely quickly and picked up on things faster than I would have if I was just stuck on basics for a few months. But maybe that's just me, though there seem to be quite a few that agree with me on this. Okay, so onward. The second thing this thread is starting to look like is your typical sparring versus no sparring debate. I hope that I'm wrong about this because it's been quarreled over for much too long. As many know, in the Bujinkan it is quite impossible for those without exceptional skill to spar full contact at full speed without injuring your opponent. Controlled randori is fine, but that isn't what is being discussed her. Full contact sparring for us in Ninjutsu would take away over half of our repertoire, if not more. If you walk into most of our dojos you will not see any full contact sparring whatsoever. Personally, I agree with Papasan when he says, "To speed your learning, slow your training." Granted, this does not mean that I will not do randori because I feel it is important, but it should not be a large part of your training and it should not resemble anything like full contact sparring. Not in our art. It's fine for striking arts like TKD and Karate-do, but Ninjutsu varies greatly from those two and all other arts. As far as being out of shape and overweight goes, I have seen some of the greatest instructors in our art who are a bit heavier than others, but who last just as long, if not longer, than the rest of us in our training. Sometimes they sweat more than the rest of us, but they never stop to take breaks and just keep on going. If they can do that then I could care less about their weight. After all, not everyone's metabolism is the same and to lose weight for some would require discipline that few of us have, so who are we to criticize? Just a few thoughts. Take care for now, all.
You are right Nightfall. This is what this post is turning into. That is not where I wanted the discussion to go. I was looking into insight about why it seems Black Belts of Most arts of I have done, except for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (they love learning more as long as it is useful) have the attitude that belt == better. And still act like white belts when defeated. I didn't do what I did to show off or anything, I felt that not going my full potential would be disreceptful. I would expect a BB to say "hmmm, I will not make that mistake again or what did you do and how can I defend against it" Becuase last time I check the Martial Arts wasn't about who is the better fighter but to learn as much as possible no matter the source. I mostly have seen this with Karate and Aikido instructors. This is the first time I saw it with Ninpo so I figure it wasn't limited to a specific art.
No, it's not limited to a specific art. I have seen it across the board including Ninpo. But, I don't train with those people very long. Like Josh, my introduction and current training follows the way Ed teaches. That's the way Hatsumi Soke teaches and it works for me. We don't nor have I ever been (in the Bujinkan at least) to a dojo where the lessons were seperated by rank. As far as the stubborness of your BB, I still say he has some emotional maturing to do.
That is the sad thing about the martial arts that we all must face. No matter which art you are studying, there will always be bad apples somewhere within the organization. I agree that the attitude of the black belt you trained with was less than admirable. Indeed it was the wrong attitude for him to take. I only hope that you're idea of black belts in our art has not been tarnished. Simply understand that in every art you have people like the one you came in contact with. There are many good and many bad people in every art, unfortunately. It's our job to steer clear of them and move on. Have a good one.
It sounded more like his pride was hurt than stubbornness. I have noticed this in the past as well. The club I trained at was a small mixed club where juniors and seniors trained together regardless of belt grade. At the time I was still graded as a green belt just because I had not been graded for my black belt and quite often took the lesson when my instructor was not able to. We had a visiting black belt training with us as he was working in our area for a short period of time. He was quite aggressive in his training and ended up hurting some of the junior members and a senior girl at the club by accident. Nothing really serious but more than they were use to. My instructor put me with him as I was of a similar build and told to go as slow as I could to counteract his speed and aggression and help him to slow down some if possible. I wasn’t entirely successful to be honest, but what he really had trouble with was the perceived difference in our belt grades and the fact that my knowledge/techniques were as good as or better than his. He was also in his late 30’s and I was about 28. My instructor suggested another club in the area with a higher number of senior adult members to train with that did do a lot more of the aggressive training he was use to. I think the icing on the cake for him was when my instructor told him to watch me while I trained with the juniors and female members of the club. In regard to slowing things down. I only learned of this last bit when he didn’t turn up for the next lesson. I am the first to admit I still have a lot to learn knowledge and technique wise but it also gave me a boost when I learnt what had happened as well.
