Has anyone seen Steven Seagal's 'The Path Byond Thought' documentary film? I think it is an excellent production & very well made. What do others make of it? And his Aikido style & skill level?
Each to their own. Whilst I don't doubt the authenticity of the aikido studied in the Tenshin Dojo, if ANY instructor least of all Seagal spoke to me the way he spoke to some of his students on the film, he'd be one less student. But that's just me. Dave
Completely second that one mr Humm, alwaysthought ss aikido was very solid and effective, but i aint got the time of day for attitudes like his, the guy lives in a total fantasy world.
I have a friend who studies aikido and said when he was on vacation he actually sat in on one of seagal's classes. Apparantly during training he actually broke one of his student's arms (doubt it was intentional, at least I hope it wasn't). I know accidents happen, but I would expect more control out of an instructor. I don't have all the details though about this. I'm just curious if anyone else has heard or seen anything like this.
I think it's at the start of Nico he demonstarights some Aikido in the dojo. In that part of the film two of his ukes class heads as a result of a technique he does. I think if a teacher is takeing such liberties with his ukes it's very sad. I read somewhere that uke means heroic courage. I think someone who is basicaly giving you their body to practice with should be respected.
Saw the documentary. Have an old seminar tape. Loved the opening scene to Abive the Law. Had a Sempai who attended a few seminars. I personally liked them all. IMHO, we take Seagal far too seriously. Just enjoy his stuff, appreciate the awareness he has brought to Aikido both good and bad, and get back to training.
Steven Seagal Rough on Students & Film Extras I've heard Steven Seagal goes rather hard on his stuntmen & film extras, as wel as students. If advanced students, guess its okay, if you dont like it - dont go! It toughens you up. Running around doing flowery Aikido moves going at it lightly won't really prepare you for the street. I think he tries to bring realism to it.
(lol) Regardless of what one thinks about Seagal as a person or an Aikido instructor, unless one knows the man personally one can only speculate on his real personality however; from my perspective, I find what little I've seen of him in aikido terms (most of that on the film PBT) I found his attitude on the mat to be very objectionable. I don't mind a 'hard' training environment or indeed some form of realism, coming from a military background I am quite used to people barking orders at me (and often for very good reasons) thus, if Seagal intends to motivate through the dogmatic methods used during the film... Fine but, telling one's student that he would "hit" him just because one was displeased with the student's performance, well... That's an attitude that would invoke an adverse reaction from me. And it wouldn't matter who the instructor was, Japanese or Western. So, this isn't an issue of what I think of Seagal (as partly posed in the first post) but an opinion of what I personally consider acceptable behaviour from an instructor. Regards to all as always Dave
Spreading rumors is very uncool. It's also contrary to the pursuit and preservation of "truth," which is one of those things we're supposed to be cultivating through aikido training. I first saw this story on the 'net three years ago. It was a rumor then. "Did you hear about ... ?" I really don't think anyone on MAP was there, and I really don't think a close friend of anyone on MAP was there, so -- it's just a rumor as far as I'm concerned.
From what I've seen, I'd say he's more about ego than anything else. I know a few Aikidoka who are all about ego and looking good. The benefits only go one way and it's not to the uke. Not really the sort of Aikido I'm interested in.
Spreading Rumours Is Uncool. Spreading rumours is uncool. Steven Seagal pushed my unresisting friend's head through the driver's side window of an SUV while shooting a scene. Noah Danby got a taste of Seagal's heroism while shooting a scene when Noah was asked to throw himself against the SUV in the scene. He pushed Noah's head when through the window when Noah dared to stand up to when Seagal upon being introduced to him said "Danby, what kind of friggin' (not his word) name is Danby?!" Of course due to the fact that Noah is quite a large wrestler he didn't take things up with him directly but waited until Noah was already participating in the throw. It cut open Noah's face and left him with a scar he has today. - Not very cool for an actor. I know Noah very well and this particular story is not just a rumour.
Steven Segal's path beyond thought I am a long time student of Nihon Goshin Aikido. My sensei offered to let me check out Steven Segal's "path beyond thought". I really liked the documentary, however. I'm also aware of Segal's ego. Being a student of Nihon Goshin Aikido, I really appreciate Steven Segal's approach to hard Aikido techniques, But I personally wouldn't want to learn from a guy who doesn't respect his students.
Oh, I dig Steven Seagal's approach to waza. He just seems to have personal issues with the world. Has anyone seen the clips floating around of him practising at his school in Osaka with the Japanese modern drumming. Interesting no nonsense waza and great matching of music to image. I also like the Nihon Jujutsu Aikido I have seen. I've seen Robert MacEwan doing waza and found his approach quite compelling.
I didn't get that story... you said Noah was the wrestler yet he didn't take things up with him directly and waited till Noah was participating in the throw? Eh? Was a bit confusing...
Discussing SS... Ever watched Seagal's Irimi nage ? If you get the chance, watch and scrutinise it and let me know your thoughts. Here's mine. My aikido comes from an Aikikai source primarily (95%) UKA tracing lineage through William Smith MBE, Chiba Sensei, Hombu Dojo. I've been studying now this my 17th year and I'm Yudansha. When I first watched SS perform his irimi nage (NICO opening sequance) I wasn't actually that impressed, his arm is pretty much at 90 degrees to his body and he's projecting essentially outside his 'centre' Whilst I've no doubt that if one catches an unsuspecting person around the neck with this "hooking" shape of an arm with any degree of force, something is going to happen however, one could pretty much say that about all aikido technique and if one "forces" it rather than using technical ability somewhere along the line the 'technique' isn't going to work. I've seen SS perform this application several times both in his Hollywood productions and in the film PBT so, its fairly obvious that this is "how" SS performs Irimi nage. A while back a couple of fellow students and I looked at the principles which make Irimi Nage work as part of a lesson. The format for this research was a s follows: The attack was reasonably committed and had resistance in the arm, we tried Jodan oi-tsuki, Jodan gyaku-tsuki, Shomen uchi, Yokomen uchi and kata dori as the means of attack. We looked at 'irimi' and 'tenkan' as a means of application through Jodan, Chudan, and Gedan. Whilst I won't go into the in's and out's of the work we went did, what was obvious, meeting 'irimi' with 'irimi' resulted in the again obvious clash of energy. Even with 'redirection' of the attaking arm, attempting to enter for a pure irimi nage (ala SS style) with one's arm at 90 degrees results in poor application UNLESS uke is offering some compliance. Watching SS and his irimi nage I also looked in depth for his use of koshi whilst he applied the nage waza and I was amazed to see almost nothing by way of hip 'injection' in most of the instances. Naturally these were in the film PBT however, one would think that given this film was a promotion of SS and his aikido, he'd be applying technique correctly and perhaps not, as he might in Hollywood productions. Who knows ! Although this image doesn't quite capture the initial contact between uke and tori (which was at right angles to SS) the picture does illustrate a couple of things to me... 1 Uke is tanking BIG STYLE 2 Tori is not using koshi and is projecting away from his center (look at the direction of his hips relative to his arm Dave
Outside point-of-view of non Aikido practictioner Hey everyone, I'm actually a MA's movie fan and have seen movies from Steven Seagal, Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, etc. Actually some years ago I wanted to start Aikido because of watching "Nico". And then I read up on web sites about Steven Seagal and I have a little bit my doubts about what I heard concerning him. From what I know he is an Aikido instructor and has his own dojos in the US, he did have a run-in with the Mafia at some point in the past because of his claims of having been involved with the CIA (trial pick below)and was recently proclaimed a reincarnation of a Dalai Lama. I haven't seen the movie above yet but have heard about him being very hard on students in his dojo. And the general perception you get from this guy in the press is that he actually is a jerk. I mean he was charged with herrassment by two of his female colleagues on movie sets and his CIA claim really got him into trouble. Here is a web site if you are interested in reading about it more: http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/steven_seagal/ I like Steven Seagal because he apparently is attempting to put messages out into the World like with his movies:"On Deadly Ground" and one recent one:"Out of Reach"...and just like with Michael Jackson (just as an example)I don't too much care about his personal life. If he has an ego, so what. I can't judge though if he is a good Aikido instructor or practitioner as I'm not one myself. He does seem to be successful in doing movies though. regards, Christian
Dont know but i remember Saito Sensei saying that the more advanced you get in Aikido the smaller the circle gets, so much so that eventually Aikido no longer becomes a circular movement. In its most advanced stage Aikido is a piercing straight line that is so small it just appears and is gone before you know it, but to understand it you must do everything verybig for along time. i was teaching irimi last night from pure kihon where you enter past uke and as you take there balance and rest here head on your shoulder you turn to face exactley the same direction as uke fully turning your hips 180 degrees allowing you the same amount of hip turn to throw uke. then getting smaller in say tski irimi nage where uke punches forward and you enter of line control the shoulder but the circle is much smaller now due to uke s movement. then more advnaced uke punches and in one slow movement you parry with the forward hand and straight through ukes throat with the other hand,(keeping your hand in front of you so its leading your movement) then the last level is all one movement that looks like a piercing straight line, as uke punches you go straight in parrying his strike and going straight through his throat in 1 move before he has finished his strike and before he has settled on his feet.( this is one of the techs i was knocked out from in iwama)
Well it's not only that Punisher; He left his Japanese wife and children in Osaka and ran off with Kelly Lebrock. Has two children with Kelly Lebrock and beats her her repeatedly, then divorces him. And his current wife called the cops on him too for doing the same thing to her. I read that she left him too. Only scum hit women. And he's done this repeatedly. Technically a very good martial artist. As a human being, I wouldn't pee on the S.O.B. if he were on fire.
