So what should Tai Chi look like?

So judging from the recent mega-thread there are two schools of Tai Chi thought? The energetic camp of Richard Dunn, represented by clips of people being stuck to the spot.

Or the physical camp of Liokault and co represented by clips such as this:

http://bullshido.net/gallery/data/533/Jawdy_-_Liokault_-_Standing.mov

Thing is to me, as an outside observer with very little TC knowledge, one looks like student awe and the other looks like third rate kickboxing. Neither does little to stir interest in an art that I've heard and read a lot about.

Confused? I surely am.

 

Baggsy, man have you hit the spot on this one, i totally agree

 

It just goes to show, what we think it looks like, and the actual reality are further part than we would like!! It's hard to tell a genuine push from a bad one, but generally I find if the pushee bounces, it's real!! (but it's easy to say that they jumped!) It's also hard to see the power of TC just from watching a Form - so many of us just look as if we are just waving our arms in the air. Most observers will be lucky to see a really good TC practitioner, and the results can often be explained away by logic.

 

More often that not it's not what it looks like that matters, but what it feels like.

Clips showing third rate kick boxing or daft 'qi tricks' are definitely not 'it', but without sensovision (tm) it is nigh on impossible to come to a conclusion based purely on visual input.

Watching form demo's will only tell you that people are fluid and relaxed or not. Push-hands/sparring demo's may tell you a bit more, but I've yet to find a clip that everyone thinks is good. Either techniques are deemed poor, or the student is too compliant to the teacher. The internet is not where you'll find the good stuff, you need to go to classes and cop a feel!

 

agree 100% with everything said here, extremes in either direction are unhelpful for tjq imo. Scuse me while I nominate this for a best tai chi thread award....

 

Hey TJB are the drawings on your website yours?? theyre amazing , i can relate to the "thinking so much my head exploded" feel. Do you know any of alex grey's work?? if not i guarantee you will like! www.alexgrey.com

 

Baggsy - The clip has little to do with TJQ and even less with selfdefense.

TJQ has the External part (Body Mechanics) and the Internal part (Internal Energy). Some emphasise the internal part, some the external part. Both are important!

 

Now to add a bit more to the Videos posted. I was trying to keep it mostly to punching range as my neck was still at the time unable to support my head in a 'clinch.'


Also the guys we were fighting were of quite good quality. The tall guy (Geordy) has just competed (a month ago) in kickboxing at a fairly high level and so was very prepared and fit and was much taller and heavier than anyone else (apart from Cullion who out weighs EVERYONE), the small guy (Adrian) also has a lot of experience and has done (at least one) semi pro MMA cage fight (house of pain I think he said).


Now, I do remember giving an open invitation no this forum to anyone who wanted to come down, no one of course turned up.

If you really feel that you can do better come to the next one. I think it will be in the midlands. As you can see from the vids, no one was out to hurt anyone or prove an agenda, so if you really want to see what you look like against a guy who you have never met before, just turn up.

 

Why can't the internet be the place to look?

Is it because here there is no spurious teacher to build up false ideals about what TCC looks like?

The bottom line is that two people fighting will always look messy unless one vastly out classes the other.

 

so which guy is LioKault?? And maybe I missed something but does one of these guys do Tai Chi Chuan?

 

The bald (but not so's you'd notice ) one.

 

Again, please put up a video of something in a 'free arena' that you belive IS Tai Chi.


but does one of these guys do Tai Chi Chuan?

How often do you spar?
How many people proficient in MA from out side of your class have you ever sparred with?


Lets try to build up a picture of why you think tcc is what you have idealised in your mind.

 

The only valid video on Tai Chi i've seen was a pushing hands video of Tung Hu Ling with a student (i think) of his. each time i see it i learn something new.

 

Choices, you mean this one right? If so, this looks like good tai chi to me, but what do I know. The other clip looks more like mma/kickboxing, but again, what do I know...

http://www.chipellis.com/videos/videos.htm#Push

 

You bet i meant that one. It's a great clip!

And the other clip on the openingspost is one i somehow can't open. I do have quicktime so i don't understand it. But i already have an idea on Liokault EMA/IMA interpretations. To each his own.

 

So your basing how TCC should look on a teacher doing push hands with his long term student.

Again, you have an idealised view of MA here.

Now don't get me wrong, I think it was a very good demonstration of TCC (if it's the one that I have seen before.....its to big to download again), and I have said so on another thread. But it is not a 'free arena!'

How clean do you think it would have looked if the student had, instead of starting push hands, kicked the old guy in the shin?



Again I ask


How often do you spar?
How many people proficient in MA from out side of your class have you ever sparred with?


Lets try to build up a picture of why you think tcc is what you have idealised in your mind.

 

Liokault, mate, you seem stressed. You okay?

 

Yeah, I have problems with the codec to.

If you go to the Throwdown sub-forum on bullshido, look for the 'Oxford Throwdown Video' thread and you should find a player to download that understands the codec.

 

thanks will do

 

I AM NOT STRESSED!!!



I'm just interested in why you all want to kill TCC for anyone other than grandmothers.

Answer the question.