So what can be done to prevent this, other than gun control

The gun control issue has been and will be debated forever, so let's go another route. The people who perpitrate these types of crimes are obviously Nuts, whether they buy a gun or not. So what can society do to prevent these people from escalating their behavior into a murdering rampage?

Or another question would be why and how do they get to this point?

 

EVERYONE please read this book:
No More Bullies: For Those Who Wound or Are Wounded (Paperback)
by Frank Peretti

Author Frank Peretti, most famous for writing spine-chilling, supernatural horror/thrillers, wrote this book about his first-hand experience of what bullying and being bullied can do to a person.

I can see blaming lax parenting in Columbine or in Mississippi, the 'American culture of violence' with the DC sniper, or even gun access with the Amish school shooter, but none of those seem adequate to explain why an above-average foreign exchange student would go on a shooting rampage. From what I understand, one thing seems to be the common denominator in all the recent cases - the angry, picked-on loner who's lost hope and only finds power in terrorizing others.

Each of these shooters experienced ostracism from their peers, and some level of bullying.

One other example: Has anyone here ever heard of a man named Mengistu Haile Mariam? He was a relatively obscure student of an African military academy who came to the US for training after he graduated. As a matter of fact, in the late 1960's, he lived in my home town of Aberdeen, MD, about a half hour drive north of Baltimore. We probably ate at the same McDonald's, watched movies in the same theatre, and got our groceries in the same store. Unfortuantely, he didn't receive a very warm welcome here. After experiencing racism and hatred, he began to resent the US and it's ideals. He became an ardent Marxist, and when he returned to his native Ethiopia, he led a group of junior officers in a coup against the current leadership. He convinced the Soviet Union to switch the side it supported in the war with Somalia, militarized his nation, and in the single largest planned genocide in African history, became responsible for the murder of between 500,000 and 2 million of his countrymen. In the 1990's, he was tried in absentia and sentenced to life in prison for his crimes. .

Now, one can only think: How would things have been different if ONE PERSON had taken the time and effort to reach out in friendship to Seung Hui Cho? What if someone had offered real friendship and encouragment to Dillan Kleibold? For that matter, how might the WORLD be different if ONE PERSON had offered genuine friendship (or even basic kindness) to Mengistu Haile Mariam? There's a saying that, "you might not change the world, but you can change the world for one person." In each of these cases, reaching one person would have changed the world.

I'm not saying 'bullying' excuses the behavior; in fact, I resent all attempts to elevate murderers to 'victim' status. But it points out one way that we can all be part of the solution (or at least NOT be part of the problem). We all SAY how tolerant we are - I read it almost every day on different threads in this forum. But how tolerant are we of people who ACT differently, THINK differently, and just don't fit in on our ultra-cool social scene?

Constant sniping and bullying can devastate anyone. Maybe we can start an Advertisement Campaign: Be a friend: The life you save might be your own.

 

Well he was getting bullied, but still most people who are bullied do not go around murdering people I think he was probally born a bit mental or the way he was brought up has. If he hadn't have been bullied I think this guy would still end up doing something crazy.

So I don't think you can stop these things happening unless we get some sought of a time machine. That's what I reckon anyway.

 

Apparently, one of the shooter's professors knew something was off with him and had gone to the campus police (iirc? I'll have to double check) about him as well as encouraged him to seek counseling. Perhaps if counseling was more readily available or there were more programs in place to encourage, or if needs be force, someone who clearly needs mental help to get it, things could have worked out differently. This guy had clearly been having some problems for a while. It wasn't a spur of the moment killing spree. I don't think we can ever completely stop these things from happening either, but I do think a bit of help, concern, and as Capt Ann so wisely pointed out, friendship would certainly go a long way.

 

The thing about the debates that always pop up after these horrible and tragic events is that it seems people aren't so much looking for answers as to why but, more so, "how can we keep this from ever happening again?".

The answer is: You can not.

Everyone wants to live in a society that is not only free but, free from violence, oppression, hate, despair, pain and suffering. The sad truth is that this utopia will never be realized because that is just how life is. It is a noble goal to strive for as long as you are aware that its never going to be realized.

Yes, the man was obviously disturbed and should have gotten help. Would that have stopped this event?

Yes, guns are readily available to both decent citizens and criminals alike in the United States but, the gun is a tool through which the troubled individual chooses to act out. Removing it doesn't remove the cause only the method. More people die every day from automobile accidents, alcohol, smoking and poor diet than guns but, no one calls for a ban on those.

Should we work on ways to understand the motivations behind the people that commit these crimes? Yes, I think so.

Should we attempt to heal and defuse those that are most likely to commit these crimes? Yes, I think so.

Should we expect to live in a world where bad things never happen. No, that simply isn't realistic.

 

Very good post Shiho-Nage. Although I think it would be also good if we would take the METHOD as well. You might not prevent something like this from happening again but at least that could diffuse the situation. And like in a post by razorkaine in the other thread was said, if that gun wouldn't be so readily avaible maybe the shooter would have calmed down and started thinking more rationally after a while in the process of trying to obtain the gun.

 

clearly, this is all the work of countless hours of doom and manhunt...

 

I doubt it helps, especially on the social isolation front, which I personally beleive to be a large part of the problem.

 

PLEASE do not blame video games. If a kid is socially isolated, it's up to a parent to encourage social behavior. Games and social behavior can and do coexist.

I've been playing video games (and violent sports for that matter) for 20 years, and I'm no more likely to go shooting up the neighborhood than the old lady down the hall who works at a church.

People need to stop displacing blame.

 

I agree with you in general, but as a point of fact, this was not a foreign exchange student, but a resident alien who moved to Fairfax County, VA fifteen years ago. He was well-indoctrinated into American society, having gone to a suburban Virginian high school (I would assume he also went to suburban Virginian junior high and elementary schools). Also, everyone indicates that he was a loner who didn't have many friends, but so far, there hasn't been much to indicate that he was bullied or picked on. Quite the opposite. Everyone who has commented on his demeanor beyond the fact that he was very quiet and "didn't seem to want any friends" noted that he was intimidating, and that people were a bit afraid to interact with him (which is not to say that he hadn't been bullied, only that the info available thus far doesn't support that conclusion). If he wasn't so anti-social, he probably would've been a bully himself (instead, he was a stalker, which I'd say is a kind of bully).

I don't recall hearing all that much about the DC snipers being bullying victims, either, but that's not so fresh in my mind, so I can't say for sure. An overarching theme there seemed to be a kid who had someone in a father figure position who was one twisted individual.

 

Two and a half months aren't enough? He bought one gun in early February. This clearly wasn't an entirely "heat of the moment" event. He didn't go out and buy a pair of handguns (not possible in VA - one per month limit. Gee, only twelve per year??) and immediately run around shooting them off.

Also, as opponents of gun control (which I'm not one of) are so fond of pointing out, gun control only affects the legal acquisition of guns, and for those intent on committing a crime, illegal weapons are often quite a bit easier to acquire than legal guns even with today's lax gun control laws.

 

You know the police were aware that this guy was insane when he bought a gun? All he had to do to get the gun was tick a box saying he didn't have mental health problems.

 

Yes, but with europe not having that many guns that are illegally sold its alot easier to track the culprit down than in the US were the market seems to be flooded with legal weapons. And since its legal to own a gun anyways what difference does it make if you use it to go hunting, for sports or to shoot a couple of people ?

Make all of them illegal to own and alot less will be available and easier to track down.

 

Wow...did you really just say that?

 

social isolation! theres this great thing out there, called the internet, it goes great with games, infact, alot of them wouldn't exist without it. :bang:

 

Errrrrrr........ Teggengod, old buddy, old friend,

Tell us, how are you feeling these days? Are you fitting in and enjoying social interaction there in suburban VA? Just checking......

 

We all talk about "how we can reach out to the isolated, depressed, misunderstood" right now after a tragic event.

But give it 2 monthes or so and we all go back to our daily routines. Acting cool infront of our friends, picking on that lonely looking Asian guy who doesn't know how to socialize well in life, showing off
how we are better than those who differ from us, etc.
We
are human beings who for the most part are stuck living based on an image we want to project to others in order to impress them and make them think highly of us.
Most people care little for the needs and concerns of others. Thats what mental hospitals are for, thats where we as a society send these types of individuals to isolate them even further from us so we can feel safer.

People will be people, once they get into groups they feel more powerful. Once they feel more powerful, they seek out a lone individual who the assume to be weak willed and harass him, insult him, and verbally/and even physically attack him.


It just sickens me how the more things change, the more they stay the same. History just repeats itself (sorry for the cliches).

 

glad you asked. very much so!

 

yet again... the point flys miles above your head.