"Sifu" Rashun Herkel's Wing Chun belongs on World Star Hip Hop.

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Combat Sports, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    So apparently a "JKD Guy" showed up at this Wing Chun class and criticized the technique so this happened. Mr. Herkel was apparently proud of himself as he posted this on his personal facebook. Log in to Facebook

    While he won the "fight" his technique AND his conduct had all the refinement of a ghetto thug in a world star hip hop video, repeatedly calling the kid the B and the N word over and over again.

    He "won" but embarrassed himself and whomever his teacher is.

     
    Grond likes this.
  2. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Hmmm, I'm going to go with;
    1. We need more context.
    2. Stripy shirt looks to either headbutt or push his forehead in, classic aggressive body language, and it triggers the fight.
    2. Your comments don't sit well with me. "ghetto thug in a world star hip hop video?"
     
    axelb likes this.
  3. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I went to his facebook and looked at his and the comments of other people who were present. The context doesn't really improve my impression. But feel free to take a look.

    If it was a headbutt it had about one inch of movement to it, and he is trying to call it a head butt in his claim he was defending himself. But it looked instead like the kid was getting in his face.

    Calling someone the B word, and the N word over and over again, along with the complete lack of technique and form made him look more like a pimp or drug dealer slapping someone around for money instead of a martial artist let alone an instructor. I grew up in those neighborhoods and left for a reason. I don't know what doesn't sit right with you, if you are implying racism, A LOT of the kids who grow up in those neighborhoods tend to act like that no matter what color their skin is.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Both are at fault, both are terrible, I wouldn't be surprised if they both get arrested.

    There's a longer video on FB with a lot more context for this.

    A) the "jkd" guy needs to not pick fights in other people's classes.

    B) the "WC" guy need to learn to handle questions in a less combative manner, I assume he was so defensive because he knows he hasnt got much experience

    There's literally no point in discussing videos like this any more.
     
    Grond likes this.
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Nah man, the guy didn't behave well, nor fight with good technique.

    However, there is NOTHING in that video that suggests a pimp or a drug dealer. Nothing. Seriously? Cussing is only done by pimps or drug dealers? Lack of technique makes someone a pimp or drug dealer?

    I won't imply it, I will outright say it. Your using that terminology is not based on his behavior, it is based off racist negative stereotypes assigned to black men. So yeah, I think it is racist. And it isn't ok. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't mean to do this on purpose. But it might be time to do some introspective thinking and research on how racial stereotyping is deeply ingrained in our culture. We can all learn to be more aware and help be part of the solution.

    And where does Hip Hop culture or music come into play? Why did you refer to that in your title? Aside from the race of one of the people in the video?

    Other than that, I agree with Dead Pool. Multiple people behaving badly. Poor de-escalation skills. Terrible embarrassing display of "martial arts" skill. That pretty much sums it up.
     
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  6. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    An article that talks about the racial bias involved in using the word "thug."

    Thugs, Ghetto and other nice ways to say N**** — Shawn Ginwright
    Quote from the article that expresses what I am talking about.....
     
    Grond likes this.
  7. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I dont need any introspection. I am the director and assistant coach of a wrestling team I drive an hour out of my way to take my son to where he is the only white kid.

    "Ghetto" is not a race. Its a culture. Which is why I pointed out most kids who grow up there behave like that. Including the white kids who do.

    I have zero interest in any "woke" or critical race theory nonsense. (Nor do my fellow coaches who are all Black I might add.)

    Cash in your virture signal points if you like.

    I can share videos of people behaving that way if you like.

    His technique was punching and flailing wild exactly like so many gang bangers I knew growing up in those neighborhoods.
     
  8. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Also FYI, World Star Hip Hop is a website where ghetto types upload fights they catch on the street. Sorry you didnt know about it.
     
    Grond likes this.
  9. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    stripey JKD guy doesn't want to test this theory without sparring kit, then becomes aggressive and effectively starts a fight without kit?
    Seems like a lot of insecurities are there once caveats come into play about testing techniques.

    Coming to another persons place of training appears that stripey is the instigator.
    WC guy is quick to raise the energy level as soon as it appears that stripey tshirt is likely to do something. I would say that if you wanted to diffuse then it was the wrong response, but this was about proving "style" or "technique" was to work.
    This was not about making new training alliance, so the response is unsurprising.

    I don't like how this started, they could have sparred with or without pads, compared technique and finished with a handshake, stripey t shirt didn't appear to want this, just to come into someone else's gym and tell them how their style was not as good, I'm not sure how he expected it to end with the attitude he brought.

    I don't condone this behaviour, but if you go into someone else's gym and call them out about flawed techniques/training, then you best be bringing some high caliber skills, or at least the charm to deliver the message in a way that would be received with cooperation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
    Grond likes this.
  10. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I certainly dont condone the JKD kid either. Though I am highly curious who his teacher is as none of the JKD people I have ever interacted with would act like that.
     
    axelb likes this.
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    So, which Wing Chun form were his techniques from? :D

    Was his language really more offensive than physically assaulting someone?
     
  12. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    WC guy could have handled it better, but he certainly could have chosen to hurt the guy much worse and didn't do so. Stripy-shirt guy came looking for a fight and got one, hard to be particularly upset on his behalf.

    Combat Sports, we don't need "critical race theory" to explain why you can't help piling racialised epithets on a black man, neither did people in "the ghetto" invent getting into fist fights. What was your goal in starting this thread, out of interest?
     
  13. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I was wondering the same, his techniques and even the choice matched an MMA rule set, i.e. strike, takedown, punching in the guard/half guard, hammer fists to "legal" targets on the ground. seems like they are conditioned to training in a MMA ruleset of sorts. Certainly didn't see anything that screamed WC expect the labels.
     
    David Harrison likes this.
  14. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Yes his whole approached stinked on of someone who has been training less than a year.
    Taking out style altogether, he is a lot younger (late teens) and lighter than the person he is trying it on with, anyone who has had any combat experience would take caution in such a mismatch.
     
  15. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    It's not racialized. It's culture. It literally applies to people of ANY race who behave that way. And it's a bad one. I help people prevent kids from getting involved in it. At the end of the day, I literally don't care what you or anyone else thinks in regards to whether or not I am racist. The people of color in my life know full well who I am. But it's a false claim to suggest that this is a racial issue. I grew up in "the ghetto". I still visit it when I am coaching. And it's an important issue that needs to be solved if anyone who lives in those communities can ever be expected to excel.

    I will not be lectured by people who likely have never even spent any significant time in those communities about the reality of it. So don't waste your breath.

    It has nothing to do with him being black. If he was white I would of said the exact same thing. And have said similar things about white people behaving that way.
     
  16. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Some of his followers are uh... loyal.
     

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  17. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    The Wing Chun guy was 100% right.......I would've given the JKD boy the same treatment.

    What did you expect? That he would bong sau-slap him or something? Or do you expect a professional break down how poorly he performed his chain punches?
     
  18. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    I wanted to post it on the EU referendum thread, but its more appropriate here I think.
     

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  19. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I know this site well. I won't lie, it's a guilty pleasure of mine.

    It's not family or work safe, and yes the founder describes himself as "ghetto nerd" and the site as "the CNN of the ghetto" and based on the video I just watch (what is wrong with people ...), the thread title is 100% on point.

    Couple of kung fools imho, but I've seen the same stuff in boxing all my life. Some people just always want to go buck wild and can't be reasoned with.
     
  20. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I am glad someone else understood the reference. It was a little humorous to me to be lectured about "racial stereotypes" and how they harm the black community by someone who doesn't know what World Star Hip Hop is. As it shows ignorance of the ghetto culture itself. But most of the people I debate that stuff with have often never been there and don't know what I am talking about.

    I again don't condone what the kid was doing either. But the kid was not an elder and a "Sifu".
     

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