Sifu Bing Zhao - IMA master

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by kungfucat, Jul 4, 2003.

  1. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    IMA is founded on Taoist philosophy.
    Taoist teachings describe Chi as Energy in many forms.
    Anyone choosing to modify the meaning of Chi is welcome to do so, but perhaps it’s better not to still call it Chi else it might confuse newbies.
    How about calling it MyChi, even McChi or cheekyChi?

    Anyone who doesn’t associate Chi with energy and practices IMA, is merely doing the External Aspects of IMA which is fine , but that’s called Wushu.
    Like driving a Ferrari without Gas.
    Looks good, but not going very far.
  2. Adc

    Adc Valued Member

    Wow guess I will have to log on more regularly to keep up with whats up.
    Although none of the people you are talking about are too concerned with levels/grades/ or other things that people wish to label them as.I can tell you that none are beginners.
    At least one comes to mind to be easyily able to instruct at least 2 styles of IMA if he wished.Not only on knowledge basis but application as well.

    As for there Qi levels????:rolleyes: I won't begun to know how to test them :D
    All 3 IMHO are extremely healthy and humble individuals well grounded in the ways of the world if that counts for anything.
    All seem very decicated to there learning and practise regularly.

    But whatever......,I still don't understand why you guys don't want to meet up and have a good chomp at a YC.
    I am off overseas tomorrow, so everyone stay cool.:cool:
    Count me in on your coming BGZ stuff.
    Stay Safe and Happy All
  3. SanYuan

    SanYuan New Member

    I have to agree with pandajelly that what i have seen and experienced of Master Zhao is unlike anything i have seen of the IMA world or of the likes of charlatans like Paul Dong and co.

    Empty, like i said before if fundamental principal to Doaist practice. The understanding that this unusual ability only affects the weak minded or required preperation is the result of peoples experience with 'hippies'. This is far from my own experience.

    This subject dates back several thousands of years and you can find many chinese stories that describe people with extra-ordinary abilities. I thaught they were myths, I did not believe in such things and was perhaps more skeptical than all of you here before I met Master Zhao.

    I have seen the appication of this invisible 'power' upon weak people and strong people. I have felt it and i have seen people struggle with it with all of their mental and phisical might. I too have tried struggling my best only to discover that the effect of this 'empty power' grow rapidly stronger the more you try to hold and resist it. It is fast and instentainious and it can be used in numerious ways. At lower levels, Masters have a kind of 'sticky' power and can destaibalise their opponent at the slightest touch making it extremely easy to control their opponent no matter how strong.

    It would perhaps do justice to call it empty ability rather than empty power because it refers to the condition of ones own body - a contition mind you, that all IMA are trying to reach.

    If i would mention such things to even my friends they would think im crazy so i have no hopes in thinking any of you consider me sane :) . I wrote this because it is my own honest experience and it related to the subject at hand.

    After saying this however, i would still recommend people remain skeptical rather than let 'false profits' lead you down the garden path. I have also experienced this and it does people alot of damage when their teachers lie and cheat them.

    Personally, empty power is not that important to me as a student of Master Zhao, what he teaches about Dao has never been taught in the west or if it has, i can not find any reference to it. The clarity and depth of his understanding is remarkable and it has changed my life and how i cope with the world around me. If the application of Dao in martial arts in 'empty power', imagine what the simple applications in life might be.
  4. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    SHADE:To play Devils Advocate, you couldn't possibly say what I am not missing without having been yourself.
    PANDAJELLY:You are right, but that¡¦s just it.
    I have been to similar informal gatherings before and realised that practicing in the absence of a proper teacher
    might reinforce mistakes and be counterproductive.

    SHADE:These guys have most certainly given me massive encouragement if nothing else (although they have also given me a lot of excellent information) which to a newbie like me is invaluable.
    PANDAJELLY:Good . But it is good to be discerning with information.
    No all information may be correct even if it was offered in sincerity.
    It took me a while to realise this.
    I was taught of misguided things in my Taekwondo and ¡§Chi-less¡¨ IMA days.
    A lot of UNLEARNING ensued.

    SHADE:From my perspective, they may still be begginers but so am I. ¡K¡K¡K.
    (my wife and son dont always want to help me and I cant really do it with furniture)
    PANDAJELLY:I know sometime it is hard to find willing partners, but keep looking in forums .Ask around.
    The door will come if you persists and often when you least expect it.

    SHADE:Not speaking Mandarin doesn't bother me. ¡K¡K.. I don't see what this has to do with anything really?
    PANDAJELLY:Non-mandarin speaking teachers will learn the finer/ subtler points thru translation.
    Things get lost in a translation.
    This even refers to the Chinese teachers who don¡¦t speak Chinese.
    Learning will be arrested at some level.

    SHADE:In my mind I wonder if Chi is whatever you personally believe it to be.
    PANDAJELLY:You have a right to re-define Chi¡K.but then it is not the Chi that old IMA Masters refer toand been
    cultivating for 1000¡¦s of years. Not good to mix and match , toyota parts in a mercedes car is gonna cause problems.

    SHADE:I know who you are referring to regarding hypnosis and body mechanics.
    Personally I would meet and train with this guy in an instant.
    PANDAJELLY:Nothing against him, think he¡¦s a sincere guy who tends to over-analyse Chi and please do train with him.
    But personally I like my teacher to be have at least 20 years teaching experience, have established lineage,
    speak mandarin and prove to me the things they claim they can do.
    Master Bing meets this criteria.
    His lineage traces back to Lu Dong Bin¡K¡Kyou can find out who this man is yourself ƒº

    SHADE:Maybe one day I will come across the door of empty power.
    PANDAJELLY:And I sincerely hope you do.
    But it may not initially appear in the form you expect.
    Just keep your mouth shut, ears open, be a positive not a negative skeptic.
    Empty Power folks tend to shy away from publicity, are semi hemits and you really have to go looking for them.
    It¡¦s not something that can be acquired over night. It takes years.
    But the rewards are very satisfying.
    You will then understand why ¡§More is Less¡¨ in every way.

    And in the ultimate, when you have given up everything, you have everything.
    This is why we empty the mind in meditation, only ¡§Emptiness¡¦ can draw Cosmic Chi.
    Hence ¡§Empty Power¡¨
    If your mind is full, nothing much will flow in yeah ?
    When you have the Dao, all things are possible¡K.Empty Power martial Arts is only a means to an end ¡Kthe Dao.
    Also, a study of non-religious Daoism and its principles will be very useful to understanding Empty Power and where it comes from.

    SHADE:To me it would be a genuine shame if I felt I couldnt possibly discuss it with other IMA's because in some way i felt superior to them.
    PANDAJELLY:I have no problem discussing Empty Power with newbies.
    But in my experience , and if you check the thread on Empty Power by Soggycat, you will see many who claim to have am ¡§ Non-Judgemental Open minds ¡§ are EXACTLY the opposite in action. He was scrutinised, ridiculed, made to explain¡ is not the nature of Dao for that to happen .
    Daoist are not interested in proving to people who have chosen not to believe in the first place.
    It has no benefit to them and cost too much energy¡K.a vital consideration for a Daoist.

    SHADE: I would imagine that I would be fairly advanced in the IMA to even FIND the door,
    Not at all.
    PANDAJELLY:The Dao stresses returning to pre-Birth childlike innocence.
    In fact , learning too much often puts you in a knowledge prison and blinds you to new perspectives.
    That¡¦s why some people will continue to see the glass as Half Empty.
    Not Half Full.

    A great example of how ¡§ More is Less¡¨

    Empty Power suitable for learning for even a child.
    But External Martial Artist who have relinquish their strenuous ways will appreciate it even
    more when they realise there¡¦s always been an easier way to do things.
    The Dao ALWAYS chooses the path of least resistance.

  5. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Well put, SanYuan !
  6. theaustralian

    theaustralian New Member

    i cant come on sat but ill come on tuesday instead cya then.

    ps when i get more time ill read through this thread

  7. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    That Chi is not Energy but Hypnosis and Body Mechanics, is quite funny too !
  8. theaustralian

    theaustralian New Member

    i think SanYaun really hit the nail on the head with that one. I'd have to say..

    "Personally, empty power is not that important to me as a student of Master Zhao, what he teaches about Dao has never been taught in the west or if it has, i can not find any reference to it."

    Too true i cant agree more

  9. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    I know exactly what you mean....many people already think that about me.
  10. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    I was there at yesterday's class, ooooh Master Bing had a very nice story to tell about meeting someone like himself during his trip etc etc...more in class.

    See you Tuesday !
  11. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    How would such a meeting-of-minds/ education benefit me ?
    It might benefit them if they do see the light.
    Please understand I neither need or seek approval from skeptics or potential new converts.

    No the snickering doesnt bother me, but it discourages me from sharing the treasure.
    Ultimately their loss, not mine.
  12. Shade

    Shade New Member


    Thank you for the brief discussion :)

    It has been very informative, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain things from your perspective. This is exactly why I commented on (or rather what I meant) when I implied it is surely better for everyone to meet and discuss things more openly, as opposed to making wise cracks about each other's respective arts. By talking things over calmly like this it draws out good things :)

    SanYuan's latest post is an excellent example of this. There could have been an attack, but instead there was wisdom.
  13. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Not correct, I'm not in a class by myself. Actually there's some 20+ ex-EMA or ex-Wushu-IMA or ex-chi-less IMA students, male and female in our class.

    A few more IMA people in Sydney than suspected eh?
    They all stay away from Tai-Chi-in-the-park because being enlightened why shd they bother to look back?

    Matt, I'm so sorry you had to run into "Yellow Bamboo" ( and a few variants in Indonesia) ... that is not what we do, and is the "charlatan" that SanYuan speaks of.

    I will say no more than the fact SanYuan skills has my highest respect. The man speaks the truth and wisely !
  14. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    How to test the Park Bagua Boys for Qi:
    Ask them to hold a light bulb , ensuring that each hand makes contact with each terminal. If the bulb lights. They have Chi.

    If it lights brightly, they have lots of Chi.

    If it lights up without contact, the have Empty Power...projected Chi

    As for the gentleman who believes Chi isn't energy, just Hypnosis and Body Mechanics, ask him to hold the bulb, instruct all observers to close eyes and visualise the bulb glow and sway.
    If visualisation successful, bulb holder has Chi.

    " Chomp at YC "
    Does that mean a show-down at a YOUTH CLUB or food at YumCha ?
    Adc , you are such a friendly guy !
    But think not safe for PandaBear to be at Yum Cha because a flying EggRoll can be quite lethal.

  15. Shade

    Shade New Member

    pandajelly, found some very interesting stuff about this man on the net.

    Thanks for the info :)
  16. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    So how many empty force practitioners does it take to change a lightbulb?

    Did a quick Google and found Bing's (secret?) website - Interesting to note that he suggests woman use psychic force-fields to stop rapists.

    Scary thing is, I have a tattoo on my chest which is almost exactly the same as Bing's logo (the old-fashioned yin/yang). Maybe the Tao is saying I'm destined to be an empty force guru - hmmmm
  17. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    you are scaring me. Your tatoo seems to be an omen.
    Master Bing once said his choice of the old YinYang symbol ( spiral) best reflects the Empty Force / Daoist philosophy he embraces.
    Could this be your “ Road to Damascus “ conversion….heh heh ….welcome then.
    I thought his website has be de-commissioned.
    Can you access it ?
    It doesn’t work for me….maybe you are getting a cached (old) copy

    Heh heh that was a funny one Soggycat.
    So you do have a sense of humour.
    You must be one of Master Bing’s student too. Have we met in class or are you one the students he sees privately ?

    So how many empty force practitioners does it take to change a lightbulb?
    #None, they just zap the bulb with an energy bolt, the broken filament melts and fuses back, restoring it to proper function,

    So how many Daoist does it take to change a lightbulb?
    #None, there are no light bulbs in a hermit’s cave

    How many Chi-less IMAs does it take to change a light bulb ?
    #None, there’s no point, there’s no energy to light it anyways.

    So how many EMAs does it take to change a lightbulb?
    At least 3.
    2 to get into Horse stance, 1 to climb on their shoulders, smash the old bulb with his bare hands and shove the new one in with a loud “ “ !

  18. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    PJ - I only recently got the tattoo, for my birthday in November. I chose it because it expressed the wuji as well as taiji, and it almost looks like a maori design (fishhook) (mine rotates the other way with yin rising, but it's clockwise when I see it in the mirror). It's on my chest over my heart.

    I was going to get a maori design but most maori symbols are tapu (forbidden/sacred). Funny thing is I was actually considering getting the bagua trigrams around the outside but I decided I'd study IMA for a few years more so I would be able to justify putting them on.

    That link works for me - try doing a search on "Central Chinese Internal Martial Arts Academy" and click on the link from another MA site links page.
  19. pandajelly

    pandajelly New Member

    Lu Dong Bin

    No worries mate.
    I think you have the mindset that will lead you to the "door"
    You are on the right track.
    Your next task might be to separate the authentic from the charlatan, the distraction from the focus.

    You might also like to investigate Yang Lu Chuan, founder of Yang TaiChi....apparently he too had some Empty Power.....but I can't be sure.

    Good things dont come easy and are usually found after some searching. This was my experience and I'm sharing that with you.
    Now that you know who Lu Dong Bin is, may I suggest you go beyond his mythological reputation and investigate how he attained the Dao and his martial skill.

    That my teacher is in his lineage leaves me in awe.
    In your quest you will no doubt encounter 2 schools of thought. One says a teacher belonging to established lineage is important. The other says not.
    Note that I used the term ESTABLISHED, not FAMOUS.
    In China they have a saying about Martial Arts teachers, that if a teacher is famous and easily found , his skill is not as good as one who is obscure and " hidden". Daoist are very low key by nature and shun publicity if they can help it.

    I believe established lineage is significant because Good things tend to last a long time , whereas , inferior things will die out naturally. Survival of the fittest. (So very Daoist too, not suprising because Daoism is about following Nature. )

    The movie " Crouching Tiger , Hidden Dragon" exemplfies this.
    The really skillful ones are quietly crouching , their powers are hidden but when stirred will unleash it with ferocity of a tiger and spirit of a dragon.

    BTW, Crouching Tiger is a movie based on IMA and Wudang arts, in fact you might have noticed Wudang was mentioned several times ?
    Examine the moves, and you will see many TaiChi and Bagua techniques. Unfortunately 90% of HongKong Kung Fu flicks are Shaolin c*ra*p
    Memorable lines from the movie:

    " You must learn to hold the sword in stillness"
    " True skill comes with no effort "
    ....and to borrow SoggyCat's fave term " Wu WEi " - effortlessness

    JadeFox: "I only followed the drawings, but I didn't understand the written code ....and so my skill could not reach your level "

    This last statement is so very relevant for IMA teachers who teach the form aspect of IMA, but forget about the Daoist philosophy, language , culture from which it was born

    Hope this helps.
  20. Shade

    Shade New Member

    pandajelly, thanks once again for more info :)

    I'd invite you to my park, but im something like 12,500 miles away :D

Share This Page