Shouting in martial arts

studying chinese arts I have been taught to focus chi, however was never taught to yell anything. I was told that the Chinese taught the Japanese Karate as a show of friendship (dont remember date) and taught them to yell as they punched and kicked kind of like a joke. Just what I was told. Never really felt the need to research it. Please let me know if that is wrong. Kind of funny when you think about it. But seriously, I have focused chi, and seen it work, never yelling....

Respects.

 

armycombatives, seriously, what ARE you smoking?

read up a bit on karate history, despite the common inconsistencies in this sort of thing it's fairly well documented.

 

Like I said, just what I was told. And Im not smoking anything, just making a statement. And seriously, dont spend alot of time reading up on Karate, I have an open mind that is why I am here. Like I said, I can focus Chi and have seen it work without the need to yell anything. Anyway, glad you are so knowledgable on Karate, and sharing your knowledge with me. I will make sure I run out right away and check that....

Respects

 

Odd that I was thinking about the Kiai only yesterday.
For me the main point of it is to promote confidence.
When we did Kata yesterday I kiai'd louder than about 5-6 people combined. I think that's because those people lack confidence in what they are doing (they were mostly beginners so I'm not criticising them for it) and don't have the mental fortitude to clear other people from their minds and just "do".
Such people, I think, would also lack the confidence to act decisively in a SD situation (shouting in public being easier to do than punching some mug in the chops).
So for me learning to kiai with confidence and intent is a small stepping stone on the way to being able to act like that when the time comes.
I'm very into the mental and emotional changes martial arts can make in people and the kiai can help that I feel. Overcoming self consciousness and our natural restraint.
I see it in a similar way to how they make women shout and scream on an anti-rape course.
It's not about the shouting per se but what the act of shouting can "bring out" of the women.

 

I shout "Hai!", for the short term confidence I guess.

 

Hmmm you shout the Japanese for "yes" whilst training ?

Ooook

 

Anyone who's ever spent any time in a gym will realize how breathing affects your power output. To keep it KISS, exhaling while executing your technique or locking out a barbell is where you get your power. Like many things in karate, this is just being taught in an exaggerated fashion so you can pick up on it. Supposedly. No mystical chi about it.

 

I absolutely concur with this.

when i first started my training and learn in heian shodan and my kiai was absolutely nonexistant because of a lack of confidence. Now I do all my moves even those not in kata and knowing my kata helped now with confidence now I can kiai loudly as anyone.

so for me it had to do with confidence, and knowing the moves helps very much with confidence and that helps with kiai.

though when i was training on tuesday and did my 4th age uke in heian shodan i forgot to kiai though....guess it happens sometimes. Oops. =]

 

We do this in our school...well, we havent done it in a while, its something Im going to do n Monday's class now.

We have the children students form two lines. We have 4 judges. (2 instructors and two parents) The student then throws a straight punch and kiai's. The judges vote on who showed the most spirit, by who kiai'ed the loudest. It is something that the kids really enjoy, and is something that really boosts their confidence. We want the kids to be as comfortable as possible, and that is why we encourage kiai'ing as much as we can!

 

my brown belt friend Wanda has the loudest Kiai out of any of us in our dojo. when we all kiai and she's not far away from me , we can literally shake the windows and while I have the loudest Kiai out of us 3 white belts, when my friend kiai's I can't even hear myself, let alone anyone else, even the black belts. I made it a goal to myself to have a kiai louder than hers very verrrrrry soon =]

as for what i shout, i do a verrrry loud "heh" although one of the black belts said while laughing, we can shout anything, scream 'puppies' for all they care =]

 

There is a guy at my gym that just screams when he fighting, its kinda disturbing. When I have to grapple with him i usually give him a good fist to the back of the head to get him to shut up.

 

We have people who do nice kiai's while fighting, but not screaming. Kiai'ing, believe it or not, provides more power to your techniques.

 

It does not matter what you shout. The purpose is to remove air from the interior of your body so that you do not damage yourself as you exercise. Since the interior of everyone's body is going to be a little different, it will take a slightly different sound to remove the air in the body.

There are common recommendations like "kia" or "hai" or "hiyaa". Look at each of those words. They all end in vowels. Those words are recommended because to say a vowel you have to breathe out. You can breathe out all of the air in your body by stressing the vowel in the word as much as you want.

If you do not expel the air inside of you when you play kung fu you can do internal damage to yourself. If there is an air pocket inside of you and you put muscle pressure on the area surrounding the air pocket, since air only compresses so much, when that limit is reached the parts of the body surrounding the air pocket will sustain some kind of pressure related damage.

 

Has anyone read an article about Sansei no Kiai, basically the three reasons to kiai? Dave Lowery might have written about this subject. Kiai is an art practiced one its own credence by some. I'd go in to it more, but my memory is foggy and I don't want to pass bum info basically its something like
1) to build yourself up/tear your opponent down
2) to stop opponent
3) extend energy

With the traditional kiai being
ei: sudden burst of energy
iiei: build up like a slap
ha: blunt, stopping
ya: harp piercing (like yari)
to: don't remember
kirei: (loud and continuous, and very high pitched...basically a war cry. From a sword art that specialized in not-having blocks but mostly only strikes...don't remember the name).

Disclaimer: I may be missing some, or misrepresenting other info. If I can find my notes with this info I'll update.

 

Well, I read that Kiai actually comes from Ninjutsu, and that it is a part of Kuji kiri exercises. It should paralize the opponent for a second and give you the edge.

Don't know if it's true, though

 

Pretty sure that's not true at all, but who knows these things for sure?

There is also a silent kiai. ki = energy. ai = to fit together/join. Basically coordination of energy. Kiai is often vocalized but really implies focused intent (if that's the right word?).

A lot of schools don't actually teach it, just kind of do it. You see many vocalizing from their throats vice their gut. When originating from the gut its usually a deeper sounding...um, sound....and one's throat will not be sore at the end of the day.

But that's just me and my training. I was taking an advanced course where we focused on one technique per week. One week it was kiai, including practical application as well as lecture (and homework). There are schools that focus solely on kiai, which is all great and fine, but those dudes that think they can knock people out with kiai are delusional (as is readily documented on Youtube kiai challenges).

 

Seems a little counterintuitive, given that whole stealth thing.

 

I know what you mean.

 

In my Dojo they never made a big science out of kiai. They told us, it comes from the gut, because that is where the center of your life energy is, and that is where power should come from. That was it. we never practiced it. A good, accurate and fast punch beats kiai fighting people any time of the day.

 

There is limited benefit to 기합 KiHab 氣合 in arts that do not train 기공 KiKong 氣功 as the former is a practice of the later which cultivates or trains 기 Ki 氣. Without the later, KiHab/Kiai is reduced to purely physical and psychological effort together with the limited and untrained 기 Ki 氣 of the practitioner. Nonetheless, I suppose it does no harm to 기합 KiHab 氣合 without an understanding of 기공 KiKong 氣功.