What exactly are they saying? Please be specific. Obviously I have a vested interest. Any information would be appreciated
Post 15 has the information, Moore's learned the tracy system, then moved to the parker system, just read a list of techniques of American Kenpo system. Mr, Labounty had no knowledge of any prior training that the Moore's had. Now remember a person with a untruth to tell has a reason, something to gain, moore's have sonething to gain, these other men had nothing to gain or lose with their statements. I really don,t care about what is claimed about the Shou Shu system, investments are investments, but if it is time or money you should take time to do your research,to be taken is to be taken. just try to find information on the Moore's Shou Shu system, except for " The web-sites" the silence is deafening. Or you get a lot of smirks. search for Shou Shu, Then check out the others listed, Ed Parker and the rest, It would takes weeks to look at all of it. Please read the interview with Al Moore,and break it down bit by bit. "people just gave me black belts in their system, so "they" could say he had them." I wonder if he would do that with Shou Shu Belts. Love your handle, haven't heard the term Greenlantern in many years, thanks for the child hood memory. Good luck to you! The other information you need to get for yourself.
Ok look everyone, Shen Yin is just saying that there is alot of junk in CMA - lots of mcdojos, schools that don't spar, etc. Look at the scope of that statement - CMA. Do you guys have any idea exactly how much that encompasses?? If you guys know CMA schools that spar with live resistance, that's great, especially for your training, but chances are they are not the majority of CMA. For every school you find that trains in that manner, just open up your local phone book, you could probably find 10 that are utter crap. That's just the price of having something grow and become popular. And as for Shou Shu, Bullshido actually has some threads about it - with Shou Shu practitioners coming onto the site and trying to defend their art and making some crazy claims. If you can wade through the flaming, it would be good to see what they say.
You got called out and just admitted that you're no better than the rest of us, so spare us your one-man vendetta to change the world of Kung Fu. Until you step up and put yourself on the line, you don't have even one iota of room to wiggle. Don't except us to do what you chose not to do, and then claim your reasons are so much more noble when half of us have the same one. Get off the cross, someone else needs the wood. You don't run any real competition circuit because your business partner/boss won't let you. Sounds like you put the value of your job over the value of your martial arts to me. But you can't admit that is a valid reason, because then your precious little soapbox falls over. Excuses, excuses, justifications, justifications. You are, you just refuse to admit you're no different than anyone else in this forum. Big friggin deal, you spar. So do most of us, your outlandish claims nonwithstanding. As for the rest, well, conveniently enough you can't prove any of it. Really, if you hate the rest of us so much and look down your nose at the rest of us so much, why don't you just go away, Shen. Believe me, I don't think any of us will miss the constant tirade of how much we all suck compared to you.
No, that's not what he's saying. Everbody knows that there are frauds out there and that's true of all traditional styles not just CMA, although CMA might be the worst in that respect. What Shen did was attack CMA directly with quotes like this. By the way Shen when did muay thai and bjj become Chinese fists?
Throwing down the BS flag Umm, excuse me?!?! Did you just say you studdied Southern Dragon?!?! Would you please state whom your sifu in this excedingly rare art is. I've practiced the style for the last decade plus and know all the instructors in the US (There's less than half a dozen) and many of their senior students personally. I also correspond with most the sifu around the world though I may not have met them face to face. If they are qualified to teach I know them. This isn't too hard as there just aren't many instructors out there. If you really had studdied Lung Ying (the only style refered to as "Southern Dragon") I seriously doubt you would have this distroted opinion of CMA. The art is all about combat application and every practitoner sparrs on a regular basis. Consider your answer carefully, Lung Ying is a very small family and we all know each other. I will call the instructor and follow up on your credentials.
Ooooooh! Pwnd! This kinda explains why he always was reluctant to discuss his style and experience. But you misunderstand him. He and his school are the exception. All of us train wrong and are not martial artists because we don't spar enough; but his occasional sparring when his time allows it makes him the one and only person to be able to redeem kung fu. Right now he hasn't got the time, but he will eventually set out on an epic journey around the world to fight in illegal underground tournaments to test his "fist" as all the masters and creators of old would have if they knew how all we kung fu players suck right now. He's probably also going to don his shining armor and grab his trusty sword and slay a few mythical creatures along the way; a couple of dragons, ogres, cockatrice and manticore.
Southern Shaolin Five Animal (like the stuff taught at Wah Lum) also has a "Dragon" component, though I don't think it's usually taught as a stand-alone style (it's usually taught alongside Tiger, Crane, Snake and Leapord, though practitioners will tend to specialize in one or two of the animals more than the others). Perhaps this is the "Southern Dragon" Shen is referring to?
Just Curious if you know Nima Mansour? I did Wah Lum with him for a few years back in the early 90's but He trained Lung Ying with a guy in NY for a few years(not sure exactlu how long) and cliamed to be a sifu under him.
Yeah, I know they do Mantis, but I thought for some reason they did Southern Five Animal too. Several years ago I studied Southern Five Animal at this place: http://www.wuhsingchuan.com/index.htm And the teacher had studied at Wah Lum. However, maybe he didn't learn his 5 Animal at Wah Lum. Anyway, the art described on this page is the one I'm referring to which includes a dragon. Though perhaps the Dragon included in 5 Animal and Lung Ying are actually one and the same art? Sliver, have you ever encountered the Dragon in "Southern Shaolin Five Animal"? Is it the same as or similar to Lung Ying?
What a very interesting thread! Shen, I've studied TMA's for 16 years, I also do MMA and fight professionally. I've used many of the things I've learned through TMA's when I compete and they've always proved very valuable and effective, so you're judgement is wrong. When you fight pro. then you can say what does and does not work, otherwise it's just foolish mumblings from a child.
Shou Shu threads on MAP are the equivalent of a dead blue whale floating in the ocean. You know everyones gonna get them a nice piece
Oyomi: Yes, and no. Yes, I've seen 5 animal style kung fu, and no, it's nothing at all like lung ying. Lung ying is very distinct and recognizable. I seriously doubt that's the style referenced by Shen Yin. 5 animal isn't called Southern Dragon, it's refered to as 5 animal. Lung Ying is typicly refered to in english as Southern Dragon or just "Dragon" as the more litteral translation of the name Southern "Dragon Shape Kung Fu" is a bit unwieldy. The art that looks most like Lung Ying would be Pak Mei, as the two are very closely related through their histories and are considered sister styles. In either case both are very small communities. 19th Lohan, I can't say I know the man you're refering to, though I probably know his sifu. If he learned in NYC it would have to be Yip Wing Hong. I wasn't aware of any of sifu Yip's senior students actually teaching on their own at this point, though if the man in question had stopped associating with sifu Yip back in the early 90s or just didn't show up at his school too often now for whatever reason he may just not have come up in conversation. Shen Yin: Please answer this post. If you do and I verify your lineage I will happily post an appology and fully support your stance. If you are a Lung Ying player I'm sure you will understand why I'm so warry when someone states they've studied the style yet still has the overarching opinion of CMA you espouse. The two are just about mutually exclusive.
I just looked you up and haven't seen anything on your record. So please, do provide me with some references of your professional career, if you will. Now as far as my martial origin, I went over this a long time ago when I first joined the forum. So let me just cut n' paste it so that I don't have to retype everything again: The Southern Dragon that I'm referring to comes from my original Kwoon's Wuu Xing Chuan. Which is Southern Five Animals and Five Elements Fist. Southern 5 Animals= Southern Dragon. Simple, right? In addition to that, my Sifu (David Sanchez) was also versed in Shuai Chiao, groundfighting and basic principles of Tai Shing Pek War (for which I originally trained in before switching to Dragon later on). We've had other 'elements' within the system, but that's another subject. Now as far as lineage, that's always been a double edged sword for me. How funny is it now that I'm not as hunky-dorie with other CMAists here, suddenly lineage comes into question (as if that's actually but so important at the end of the day). I've been consistently researching my Fist's history, but I keep running into bottlenecks with other psuedo related schools. Either they're nearly similar, but not 100%, or they're completely different altogether. Do this for long enough and it gets frustrating. But after awhile, you do realize that it's pretty pointless also. Especially when many of the similar schools don't fight very well to begin with; way too much theories and out of shape players. So when I run into the answer, then I will. If I don't, then I don't. Now as far as my view on CMAs, it's not a far fetched POV at all. Naturally CMAists are going to be defensive about this when it's brought up (how many times have I seen this before). But it is what it is; most CMAists aren't good fighters because they don't practice fighting. They practice drills, rely on theories, forms and WC Chi Sau on a more consistent basis. If this weren't true, then the end results would be different and exposure of CMAs as an overall effective fighting umbrella would've come to light a long time ago. But it hasn't, especially these days. The saddest part is that whenever I do get a chance to meet CMAists, like anyone else, I tend to ask for a friendly "meeting of hands". Say in the park, or somewhere private (I've even stated this before). Unfortunately my caution for CMAists that I meet is relatively low, as I keep running into people who head into slap-fests, or who are so out of shape, that by the time I'm warmed up, they're gassing out, worn out, or quitting. I've always had a stronger challenge with kickboxers, muay thai fighters and nowadays, MMAists or BJJ'ers. Yes, it's sad to say and admit, but it's disgustingly true. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule. But when aren't there in any case? The closest examples so far have been San Shou, which is simply put, conventional Kickboxing with throws. So while I don't have a pro fight record (thank you, Renny... ), I do fight quite often. Again, I'll have some sparring vids up n' online soon enough. Any other questions?
Southern 5 animals =/= Southern Dragon. Southern 5 animals = Southern 5 animals. There is basicly no overalp between 5 animal and Southern Dragon. Please be careful with your nomenclature, distortions lead to misunderstandings.
Well, since you looked me up, you know all about me, you know my name, so finding my record should be incredibly easy. If you still can't find anything, then what's you problem?
