Shou shu

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Lee Waters, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. Su lin

    Su lin Gone away

    I just meant that it makes your longer posts tricky to read. It's hard enough reading long posts on a computer screen as it is. Even if you struggle with punctuation maybe just break it up into paragraphs to make it easier for the readers.
  2. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    I dont train to reach a deeper understanding, or for a connection to peace in my soul.

    I train to knock 7 bells out of someone who threatens me or mine. Period. Therefore anyone who looks like they are threatening me or mine, gets a line drawn, either verbally, or in my head. They cross that line, they get the first bell, and as many more after that as it takes for them to give up, KO, or run away.

    Im under no illusions of granduer in my MA training. Can you say the same? You use the words "warrior" "calming" etc.... which smells like mystical grandeur to me.
  3. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Actually, from my experience it is usually those instructors who have had little or no real life experience that maintain that defence beats attack.

    And please don't think I am in favour of picking fights with people! About a year ago a friend of mine nearly got into a fight with a group of blokes in a pub. One of them took a dislike to me, dunno why, I wasn't even really involved, and started saying he was going to rip my head off and insulting my mother. Now this made me very angry and I really wanted to hit him but I managed to stop myself because I got the impression that he wasn't actually going to do anything physical. He never got closer than about five feet away. Had he come towards me saying that stuff and got within punching range I would have felt justified in hitting him because I would have felt genuinely threatened. I certainly wouldn't have waited for his first blow.

    A friend of mine was having an argument in a park with a guy who claimed my friend had been trying it on with the man's girl friend. My friend was in the middle of a sentence when the man nutted him in the face, fortunately he got away with only having a few stitches above his eye but it could have been worse and the man could have been a nastier piece of work and put the boot in when he was on the ground.

    My mate didn't do any martial arts at the time but reguardless, if someone is a few inches away from you and decides to headbutt you, and they know how to headbutt, then they will pretty much always manage to, however well trained and quick you are.
  4. shoushutiger

    shoushutiger New Member

    well its impossible to make a blind man see or a deaf man hear ................
    as i always say a man can't begin to lean until he comes to understand he knows nothing yet......and sense most every one here seems to already know everything ill stop trying to enlighten ....the day i claim to know all i can learn is the day they lower me down 6 feet... if any one regardless of there style makes a statement that has some thing worth wild in it i try to not look for what i see it to be not worth wild i take something form it because we all are teachers to each other not just in MA but in life ....i mean no disrespect in what i say its just sad to see so many with their heads buried so far in the darkness that they can't see any light

    salute to all
  5. SirVill

    SirVill Valued Member

    You should NEVER let anyone get close enough to headbutt you unless you're on friendly terms.
  6. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Thats tough on the tube sometimes :D
  7. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Well I thought I had carefully listened to what you had to say and then stated my point of view as reasonably as I could, explaining as fully as I could where my view disagreed with yours.

    Last time I looked that was debate :rolleyes:
  8. SirVill

    SirVill Valued Member

    Haha... fair call then! :)
  9. Sever

    Sever Valued Member


    Your avatar is in direct contravention of the Terms of Service that you agreed to when you signed up for this forum, namely that regarding profanity. Gestures in avatars count as profanity. As such, I request that you change it to something more suitable. Thanks
  10. Zakotsu

    Zakotsu New Member

    I was directed to this closet of crap.... First off, the thread started off wrong. Saying anything negative about an art is absolutely going to get some of the less dignified and sensible practicioners going. As a student of the art myself, having had to accually USE the art in a real self defense situation before, and having seen it used, I can vouch for the fact that it is about as much "BS" as the next self-defense art. My true motives for taking MA are not just for self-defense and having something, they are for self-control and realization. Having something physical to work with very much helps the process of self-realization. All and all, I personnally like the art, and through study, I have found it to be very connected. For example, the main point of one of the stances is to present to your opponent as little a target as possible, A straight damn line. from there you can go anywhere according to the situation. Once you learn an art, perform well at it, "UNDERSTAND" it, then, and ONLY THEN, can you say with any drop of sensible truth that it is something like BS.
    Although I will give you this: Shou Shu is good, for all intents and purposes, at what it aims to do, but one of the only problems I have with it is that it is not fluent enough.
    On a more personal level: I do not really like the idea of styles, they create conflict and confusion, and also blindness. Blindness to the fact that all things MA are all in the same, as varied as life. If I had a deeper understanding of things, I would most likely be doing something else with my time, but since foresight is a gift rare to this world, I walk the path and play it by ear.
  11. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    Shou Shu = Tracy's Kenpo/Richard Lee's Bok Fu Do

    The following names are a complete list of outstanding world class Black Belt men and women,
    dating back to the 1960's, developed, recognized, and certified by Grandmaster Richard Lee.
    * - An asterisk nest to the name indicates a United States Team Member (National Champion) that represented the United States at the World Kung-Fu (Kuoshu) Championships. w - A "w" next to the star indicates a World Champion.

    Richard Lee Black Belts 1960's Before 1972 (Tracy System)

    Pat Douglas
    Glen Hasstedt
    Al Moore
    Ralph Moore​

    Richard Lee Black Belts 1970's. after 1972 (Bok Fu)

    Bill Kelly
    Ron Lee
    John Simmons * *
    Rich Brown *
    Rich Buford
    Terry Kane *
    Gerry Kawaguchi *
    Mark Miller *
    Herb Cody *
    Mike Adair * w
    Mark Vanderpool *
    John Coen *
    Steve Gaudenzi *
    Tony Ito *
    Robert Ito
    Jim Kane
    Tyler Hanamura
    Johnny Hein
    Al Moore Jr.
    Tom Amaral

    Mr Richard Lee
    Developing the system of Bok-Fu-Do has and continues to be my life’s work. When I first opened the Castro Valley school in 1967 I was teaching the Tracy system of Kenpo as taught to him by Ed Parker. The school grew so quickly that I decided to open another in Dublin and shortly thereafter a third in Walnut Creek. By the early 1970’s I was operating six schools and had many students that earned their black belts with me under the Tracy system of Kenpo. I did not formulate the name Bok-Fu until 1972.

    The black belts that I produced after 1972 were the first Bok-Fu black belts

    In 2001 at the Gathering of Eagles in Las Vegas, Nevada, I received the Senior Master's Gold Ring, one of only six such rings ever presented. Some other fellow ring recipients included Great Grandmaster Al Novak, Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro, and Grandmaster Larry Tatum. During my Gold Ring acceptance speech I made it clear that it was always out of respect and pride from my Chinese Kenpo roots that the Tracy/Parker system was the base of what I used in taking on the world in not only the 1st ever World Kuoshu (Kung-Fu) tournament but in all other World Tournaments and major International events. I further spoke about the fact that if it were not for Grandmaster Al Tracy I probably would have never gone proffesional and that I have always thought of my life's work as the international branch of Tracy/Parker Kenpo. I stand by those statements and will forever be grateful for Grandmaster Tracy's guidance.

    Story OVER!!!
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  12. shoushutiger

    shoushutiger New Member

    W.T.F is your point here has any one ever once said that Da Shifu never trained with parker or lee??? NO so your useless posts prove nothing more than you for some reason have a personal thing with Shou Shu . Maybe you should try spending some time training in a art instead of being a <personal attack removed> . I'm sorry you had your snack pack took in school by some one but get over it!!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2007
  13. Su lin

    Su lin Gone away

    Thread closed while we decide if it is worth keeping it open,as it always ends up in a slanging match.
  14. Su lin

    Su lin Gone away

    I'm going to keep this thread open, on the following conditions:

    1. NO personal attacks- while we encourage healthy debate on MAP personal attacks and inflammatory remarks will not be tolerated.
    2. It remains strictly on topic.
  15. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    Shou Shu's holy scroll

    We wondered where the story of the(Holly scroll) that Shou Shu claimed the the People republic of China gave to them for restoring the art of Shou Shu. It's a Richard Lee story, Mr Moore's instructor. But not for restoring a art.

    We will never come to agreement unless I televise a video with the "holy scroll" in my hands and even then you'll call me a liar!! Post 233

    Scroll seven pictures from top.

    Hsu, Fun-yuen (right), President of the Tai Chi National Gymnastics Association
    in the Republic of China presents Lee with a beautiful scroll during Lee's first visit to the Republic of China in 1972.

    Just like Al Tracy,Steve Labounty, Ted Sumner have said Richard Lee just confirms what these other men have said. Al Moore was just a Tracy Black Belt student who went on his own.
    read the whole Bok Fu Do web site, you will find more of the Shou Shu stories.

    L. Waters
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  16. shoushutiger

    shoushutiger New Member

    I Didn't Think That Was A Personal Attack I Felt It To Have Some Truth :)
  17. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

  18. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I think Lee has pretty much laid it out.
  19. Lee Waters

    Lee Waters Valued Member

    Mr Sutherby

    Mr Sutherby was with Al Moore when he came up with shou Shu in the early 70's.

    Grandshifu Sutherby created Silver Tiger Kung-Fu in Portland, Oregon in 1979. His interest in the martial arts began long before that, at the age of 16, when he learned hand-to-hand combat from his uncle, an instructor for the Marine Corp. In 1960, Grandshifu Sutherby joined the Navy and, over the course of his two tours of duty, was stationed in Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, and finally Guam, where he served aboard a nuclear sub tender. These military and overseas experiences afforded him the opportunity to further his studies in both external and internal styles of the martial arts.

    After leaving the military in 1971, Sutherby moved to central California. Anxious to continue his studies in the martial arts, he started researching the schools in the area. He hoped to find a studio that taught something similar to what he learned overseas. He found Moore's Karate, overseen by Da Shifu Al Moore, Sr. At that time, Da Shifu Moore taught Kempo, and Sutherby studied this for the first year. Then Da Shifu Moore created the art of Shou Shu, turning away from the hardness of the external styles to focus instead on the softer movement of the internal styles. Sutherby was privileged to both witness and be a part of this change. After studying with Da Shifu Moore and other senior black belts, Sutherby obtained his 1st degree black belt.

    At the end of 1978, he had to make a career move to Oregon and so he was forced to end his studies with Da Shifu Al Moore. In Oregon, he once again searched for a martial arts studio, trying to find something comparable to what he had been taught in California. In this he was unsuccessful. Therefore, he decided to put all of his training and research to use. Confident that he was ready to open his own studio, Silver Tiger Kung-Fu was born. To this day, Grandshifu Sutherby continues to research as well as teach the martial arts. He is also writing two books with his fellow students.
  20. FightingMonk2k3

    FightingMonk2k3 Valued Member


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