Shooto Brazil: Male v Female

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by Mushroom, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Well, someone was going to try it.

    It already happens in Muay Thai and I have seen it in No Gi submission matches (not in person mind you).

    Then again, this brings back the whole Fallon Fox argument.

    I spar with a few women, a couple I know beats me in Boxing and Submissions. And another I know (smaller than I) squats, DL and benches more than most guys pound for pound.

    And in the end, both competitors are aware of the risks going in. But will this publicity stunt will be harmful to the sport? Which unfortunately is still seen as barbaric in some eyes and still "illegal" in Countries/States.

    What do you guys think?

  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'm actually fine with it. Within the same weight class I honestly don't see it as much of a problem.

    The issue here is the social perception. MMA is only just coming out of a crappy reputation generally and there was decent resistance just to adding the lower weight classes for men. Women's mma got a lot more flack although they've been pulling it back by putting on really good fights. But, society as a whole seems to struggle with the idea of women fighting each other. Women fighting men is too much for people at the moment as evidenced by the tone of that article.
  3. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I'm all for it, but I reckon people will have a negative reaction to a guy GNP a girl (but not the opposite) due to social stereotyping.
  4. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That being said though, if they did these more often it would change the perception. People were dead against wmma all the way up until they started fighting. It didn't matter what arguments you made about the political or social stuff behind them feeling dodgy about it, the ultimate cure was for them to just see it and get used to it. Course it did help that women mma gets all the dumb sex stuff as well to help it along. But so long as a promotion could survive the iniial backlash then holding male on female fights would be the best way to get them accepted
  5. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Exactly this. Within the same weight and with similar levels of training there's little other reason for this to not go ahead.

    Would actually be very interesting to watch.
  6. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Thinking about this some more(sorry,its a subject I'm very interested in) this is also a rare issue that people who train won't necessarily defend either. Sure everyone on here has seen guys train with women and treat them like glass? They even brought it up on TUF where you'd expect that level of fighter to have built up a respect for female partners.
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I don't agree with it. Maybe I've been listening to too much Joe Rogan but it just doesn't seem fair to me. I'm sure she's a great athlete (pro judoka has to be!) and that guy is a bit weird for fighting a woman.
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    To the best of my knowledge, this is the only combat sport that has men fighting women at the professional level. I really don't see it taking off (that doesn't mean I'm against it). Men and women don't even compete against each other in soccer or athletics. I think this is one hurdle MMA just will not be able to get over.
  9. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    There's a girl in my class, she's just 16 and she can give as good as she gets and take as good as she gives. She gets a lot of respect from me for being able to go toe to toe on leg kicks, haha. I always say to her "You control the pace, if it's too much just say so". She just gets her head down and gets on with it, with no complaint.

    Never will I treat a woman like glass in training. They're their for the same reason and won't benefit from being wrapped in cotton wool. Obviously that's not a direct excuse to batter them at any given chance, but if they're serious about their training then they really do not need to be treated differently outside of being mindful of obvious bodily differences.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  10. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    It is if you're married to 'em! :D
  11. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Well... that's a given. :D
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i'm not against the concept, but weight classes are an extremely stupid equivalence parameters, because body composition in men and women is different, with women generally having higher body-fat percentages, plus the whole less muscle mass on the upper body thing, which means that at the same weight, more often than not the woman will be at a marked physical disadvantage, even if skill level, pain resistance, etc happen to be equivalent. either let the women be heavier than the men (say, 5kg heavier), which would be the cheaper option, or match them based on approximate lean body mass, which would be the fairer but more expensive and extremely difficult to employ option.
  13. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Or we could stop pushing boundaries to the point we cross into Stupidland.
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    But even lean body mass isn't accurate because, as pointed out by Joe Rogan when he was discussing Fallon Fox, even male skeletons tend to be heavier than female ones.
    Bigger hands, thicker wrists, wider shoulders etc.
    Bigger weightier hands would create harder punches even if the people weighed the same based on lean body mass I think.

    This seems fine to me if both agree to it but it's ultimately useless because the fight won't really count on either's record will it?
    The guy won't increase his stock by beating a woman.
    While the woman won't be increasing her chances of being matched up with other women.
  15. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    And I never understood why people feel a need to break it down that far? Male fights in the same weight class aren't even. People cut weight, people have different amounts of muscle, people are different sizes. Pat Barry is hardly your average HW for instance. I don't deny its something to be aware of but I don't see why its that big of a deal breaker. I know training isn't fighting but I'm more inclined to take the fact I see women match and beat men when they're actually doing the sport in question over the theoretical problem that men hqve some physiological advantages
  16. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Sometimes boundaries need to be pushed so people recognize that there are boundaries.

    I'm all for gender equality in the professional world where it's a battle of mind, wit, proficiency and knowledge. It's a little different when you're talking about physical prowess in specialized athletes though.
  17. Microlamia

    Microlamia Banned Banned

    I figure they're both adults, so it's their right to do stupid things if they want to. People do dangerous activities all the time, e.g. BASE jumping or downhill mountain biking, and nobody complains, because they're overage and competent to make their own decisions.
  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    some women ive met have had to enter the male amateur strongmen comps cos they were too heavy and strong for the females. they beat most the guys
  19. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    it's not a theoretical problem, it's a known physiological fact. and it leads to the equivalent of a male fighting someone one or two weight classes down who got fat. most women will naturally not be as lean as most men, so at the same weight, the discrepancy in muscle size and bone density will be atrocious, and the only way for it to be fair would be to pit experienced women against total noobs.

    @van zandt: technically, we shouldn't be beating each other up for entertainment, but we do anyway, and we enjoy it. the only boundaries to be pushed are entirely artificial in the first place
  20. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    the strength difference (in muscle mass) plus when you look at neuromuscular efficiency, men are more efficient and therefore can deliver hard harder punches more frequently.

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