"shiken haramitsu daikoumyo"

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by thomas81, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I am not suggesting that one "skips" any level of acquired skill.

    I am saying, a tradition has a start from something else and does change over time. Therefore how can it be truly a tradition
  2. George Kohler

    George Kohler Valued Member

    The title and the wikipedia are wrong...

    The phrase starts with "Shikin" as in "Shikin Haramitsu Daikōmyō" (詞韻波羅蜜大光明) and not "Shinken".
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
  3. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    This seems like a silly debate - following the traditions of a school have nothing to do with free thinking and individuality.

    @47MartialMan - you are an individual and free thinker, so you may do as you wish, BUT, if you choose to belong to an organisation, and they have a tradition that is deemed important, your choice to belong is also your choice to adopt those traditions.

    If you don't adopt those traditions, you're not really a part of the organisation beyond mere words, that is a mindset that we have alot nowadays, "I have gained a technical knowledge of some techniques so I know it all and can change everyhing" - it's nonsense, unless you are Uchijin you know nothing beyind basic physical, no matter how long you have trained, and therefore cannot hope to understand what is important or not - hence the fact that when koryu split only Menkyo Kaiden branches are ever recognised as legitimate

    If you choose to be a Police Man you will wear a uniform, if you choose to play for a football team you will wear their kit, if you choose to own an iphone you will use their apps, if you choose Bujinkan you perform opening ceremony...
  4. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    It does make me wonder though, how often is the outward appearance in the Bujinkan just fluff? Doesn't everyone in the Bujinkan have to sort through the theatrics to find the actual teaching in the first place? To do that, you have to know the purpose and mechanics of the item in question. If there are no mechanics and the purpose is "It's the done thing", I can certainly see why people might question its necessity, especially in the Bujinkan.
    It's a bit like saying that you aren't a member of the Bujinkan if you don't train in all black. There's a meaning to it and it can affect your attitude in class, but it's certainly not the substance of the training.
  5. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    The problem is too many people change things without understadning their purpose.

    And its seen as 'that's just how it's done' becasue they don't know the real meaning, and often their Sensei doesn't know the real meaning...

    If you know the meaning of something, and can see it's not important - that's a different matter, and thats why Menkyo Kaiden branch off - Not someone still in an organisation running a dojo in another country deciding it doesn't fit their schedule.

    This applies across the whole practice - but in relation to opening ceremony, if you operate a Bujinkan dojo, aren't you representing the Bujinkan? If Hatsumi wants opening ceremony in his organisation, as he does it, and you are in his organisation, wouldnt you do it out of sheer courtesy if nothing else?

    Otherwise whats next, I don't like Kihon Happo so we'll take that out, I'm not fond of Togakure Ryu so we'll take that out, Gyokko Ryu is old so I'll remove that - you may be right on every count, but your no longer teaching what's in the org, and if thats the case you should do your own thing - but if you want to belong to the org their are certain things that should be done..
  6. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Fair point, but this is actually something that is also done in Genbukan and Jinankan, 2 orgs not exactly known for 'unnecessary fluff'
  7. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I agree that it serves a purpose and that it's good to transmit the art as taught. Just pointing out that in a community where blind imitation or rote repetition aren't highly encouraged, I can see why people wouldn't buy the "because someone says so" line. Soke says a lot of stuff, after all.
  8. ninjedi

    ninjedi Valued Member

    I think every seminar I have been to also does it
  9. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Generally speaking Soke didn't do it at the larger taikai

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