"shiken haramitsu daikoumyo"

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by thomas81, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    The man has been showing how to do a basic punch for 4 decades and how many can emulate him?
     
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Nope.

    Its called "being different/diverse"
     
  3. Plusminus

    Plusminus Valued Member

    Then, they can easily part ways with that tradition as a whole and do as they please - without using said tradition's name.
     
  4. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Agree.

    Traditions can either be carried or discarded, pending
     
  5. Plusminus

    Plusminus Valued Member

    Agreed. So, if someone's not willing to carry on a tradition, why even bother trying to transmit it to others?
     
  6. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Please Read Carefully:

    To reiterate a passage from my post #13;

    Things, culture, people change and what may have been a tradition could be a burden.

    A prime example of culture/people remaining with traditions are the Amish
     
  7. Plusminus

    Plusminus Valued Member

    Thank you, but we're not saying something different.

    If -for example, in our discussion- Hatsumi Sensei is the heir (and head) of a certain martial culture, he's very much in a position to preserve, modify or discard any traditions he sees fit (being initially the one on the receiving side of the transmission in the process of "tradition", growing into the one transmitting tradition). Those who have received full transmission can very well decide to break away and do as they please, signifying the start of their own martial tradition or martial culture.

    Like you very well said, things, culture and people change, and that is because traditions change too. However, if I tweak my grandmother's recipe for beef patties, which was handed down to her from her mother and so on, replacing whatever spices she uses with those of my own choice -while doing away with some, because they don't fit my own personal taste-, I'm not really making my grandmother's patties. They could be all great and everything, but they're my beef patties, I can't present them as my grandmother's recipe. That is mainly because, for the love of God, I cannot master what my grandma does with those beef patties - I do think I'm missing something in the transmission.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  8. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Indeed. But what really boggles the mind, did your grandma tweak her recipe for beef patties from someone who transmitted to her? :cool:
     
  9. Plusminus

    Plusminus Valued Member

    As a matter of fact, she added something. I was lucky enough to be present in the discussion she had about it with her mother, to which she agreed. ;)
     
  10. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    So, it would seem, "nothing is truly traditional" :)
     
  11. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Yes, but it is up to the one who is soke to alter the recipe.
    When it comes to the ryuha you have zero standing to decide what is or is not important. Do you know better than Hatsumi sensei?
    You are like an apprentice deciding what teachings of the master he will follow and which ones he doesn't.
     
  12. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    And unfortunately sooooo many people are just like that.
     
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    What does that say about the teaching structure of mainstream bjkn.
     
  14. benkyoka

    benkyoka one million times

    I think he meant to write "the man hasn't shown how to do a basic punch for four decades." ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    But, the headmaster could be wrong. (Note:A)


    Note:A

    Note:A

    Martial arts have been evolving from the time of man. Methods have to change. If a head instructor instructed people to do something, it soon became archaic as a new master will have something else, something improved, thus over centuries.

    Simply, to do something because it is traditional, does not lend it to be practical and becomes stalled from a state of improvement.

    And with this state of improvement or change, be it over centuries, decades, martial arts, medicine, and even recipes, these all cannot be labeled as traditional.

    Traditions are not always about "what was", as new traditions are started. The strange thing, any tradition had to "start" somewhere and usually from a state of improvement or change
     
  16. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    That doesn't change the fact that you have absolutely no basis of understanding on which to decide what to discard and what not. When it comes to the ryuha, you are like a colorblind person deciding which colors work for a given purpose.
     
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Somehow, some may, after a period odfskill or transmission, one can change it/discard

    Soon, there comes a time when you can see the colors
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
  18. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    How much transmission of the actual ryuha have you had?
     
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    The point is, any had to "start" somewhere. They had to "start" a tradition". Some had "branched off"
     
  20. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    And then the tradition grows to something that works as a whole over hundreds of years, during which changes are made only by those who have mastered what the ones before them passed on.

    First comes mastering, then comes changing.
    You skip the mastering and go straight to the changing.
     

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