Personal experience. But I doubt that's "good enough" for you, so I suggest you look into any books about taoist/yogic sexual practices as many allude to this if not actually discuss it openly. You also might consider as partial proof, an anecdote of mine in this post on another thread: Knocked Out
Seems like a lot of these sorts of subjects are just fated to come up time and again. Since there is plenty of published material on the matter under discussion the person who started this thread could have easily found an answer without starting a new thread. Further, we had just had a thread on the same subject in another part of the forum. So, my guess is that rather than wanting an actual answer on the subject, this is only a rather transparent use of a highly-charged subject (sex) to draw attention. Similarly charged subjects are the matter of women who train during their period, men who become aroused rubbing against other men on the mat, the role of traditional MA in real-life confrontations and the matter of Christian belief systems in a Buddhist or Taoist practice. My own thought is that all of these topics and many others have been done to death and are only of interest when serving the more purient interests of the younger folks among us. Can we move on? Best Wishes, Bruce
You do realize that this thread was started 3 years ago, right? Check the date on the first post. I remember when it was first posted here. I was still in Kuk Sool Won at the time, I think. I don't even know if JSun is active on this forum anymore.
As a matter of fact, Bruce, I wanted a sincere answer to the original post. I was still a fresh white belt when I posted the original question and wanted an honest perspective from more advanced practitioners: Please do, Bruce. Your post didn't contribute anything to the topic at hand. AZeitung, glad to see you're back. We can always use a bit of skepticism on this forum to keep the sheep in check.
Excuse me, Jsun, but I don't think you know when you have been given intelligent information to begin with. Do you have a library card? If you are on the INTERNET have you accessed the Library of Congress? What reading have you done as far as Traditional Chinese Medicine or even Sports Medicine? If you were actually interested in the subject, you would have done research and brought the results back here to be discussed. According to your post you are 33 y/o. Why not deal with this subject as an adult instead as a teenager? Have you sat down face-to-face with a KSW master and asked him about the role of orgasm versus retention in terms of Ki development? Have you discussed masturbation? What about diet? No, I DON'T think you are serious about the subject as there are a great many resources you could have used and brought the INFORMATION back here. Mantek Chia has written extensively on the subject of sex and Ki development. Have you read any of his books? How about attending any of his seminars? If it sounds like I am more than a little annoyed, your "internal voice" is right on the money. I, for one, get just a little tired of visiting forums where the subject matter is constantly underfire from youthful stupidity, hormones and lack of information. How about you do this old man a favor and start acting your age. Regards.
I think this thread was bumped back up by a new member to the forum who wanted to give a light-hearted answer and found humor in it. Come on Mate's let's not let some light humor escape our forum. Besides if a topic IS brought up several times, could just mean people REALLY are interested in it.
Youthful hormones? Dude, he's 33. JSun has never come across as anything but intellegent and sincere on this forum. You're relatively new here, so you might want to take some time getting to know people's posting habits before you try to call established members out as trolls. And thanks, JSun, it's good to be back. I took a year off from MA all together, which ended about a year ago when I resumed BJJ. I was doing a lot of dancing (tango/swing) at the time, and MA just didn't hold much appeal. I've been busy in grad school, so I haven't been posting much, but I have a bit of down time, and it's always interesting to look around and see what people are talking about.
I don't much about all this stuff, but I found this link quite interesting. Look near the bottom, in benifits for men. http://www.answers.com/topic/kegel-exercise Isn't part of Ki Cho Cha Ki just doing one of these exercises?
In Microcosmic Breathing, there is a point where the incoming breath has completed its course in through the nose, over the top of the head and down the length of the spine. From the base of the spine to the pubic bone, the "perineum" is a transitional area at which point a "kegel-like" contraction is performed said to induce the flow of KI up the front of the body with the exhale and out through the mouth. Though not stressed much in the sort of breathing that one finds in many MA, it is not uncommon to find this practice incorprated into contemplative practices including meditation, Yoga, CHI KUNG and PAL DAN KUM. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
I have to admit, I've never heard of Arnold Kegel or Joshua Davies until now. But I think it's rather ridiculous that just because some guy designed a make-shift device using a balloon and a tire-gauge that he gets some exercise named after him when it's been done for centuries in the orient by those adept in Ki Gong. :dunno: And come on Bruce, from everything I've just read about kegels, it appears to be EXACTLY like what's admonished in Ki Gong (at least what I've been taught anyway). I learned in the traditional manner (meaning from an instructor) but since you mentioned Mantak Chia a few posts back, I have to agree with you that what he explains in his first two books [1,2], is strikingly similar to the practices that I was taught (most books by M. Chia are worthy of note and should appear at the bottom of the links provided). AFAIK, both the upper and lower diaphragm need to be flexed in order to "pack" the Ki into the Dahn Juhn. Ki-Cho-Jja-Ki - 기초짜기 (hereafter, KCJK) by definition is a "basic" exercise, and while it's not wrong when performing these exercises to do muscular contractions associated with more advanced Ki training methods, it's rarely taught that way. While I'm presently unable to consult a WKSA Textbook, I believe it simply says to "hold your breath" when doing the KCJK movements. But I will concede that it's the *first step* toward moving down the path that few choose to follow. If you look closely, you'll see that the bottom portion of that Answers.com article is actually taken from Wikipedia (always my first choice to look, but hey, that's me). I do have to admit that the Answers.com article mentioned Dr. Davies and Wikipedia didn't. And if you thought the article you linked to was great, you should follow the one at the very bottom (which is the same regardless of which web host you link from - again it also is a Wikipedia article contained inside an Answers.com web page) Taoist sexual practices
Bruce, I coming at it from a different angle. Hopefully this post will help. unknown-KJN, What I can't understand is why this is considered advanced Ki training. I will give a couple of examples and then attempt to tie it back into KCJK I have lifted things on many occasions that I had no business moving on my own. I typically go through a ritual, not planned at all, of breathing deeply, psyching myself up, etc... I don't even know if my ritual is the same everytime. The one thing though is that I always tense those muscles like crazy in these situations. If I don't then I feel like I am going to blow an exhaust valve. So in extreme power motions for me at least it is natural to squeeze there as a protective mechanism. The second example is archery. According to my instructor, it is common in Korea for a doctor to suggest that women with problem births, i.e. pelvic floor has been weakened, take up archery. Every time you shoot, you tense these muscles. If you do not then your consistency and accuracy will suffer. I have experimented with this myself. Although I am not great, I am good enough that leaving out that portion of the motion negatively affects my shooting. So this kegel exercise helps support the lower back against the jerk of the arrow release. If we look at KCJK as a way to understand basic movement with a neutral spine, important in MA because power transfer across a non-neutral spine is very lossy, then I see at least that you have to squeeze those muscles as well. Funny enough, #4 feels like archery example and #5 feels like the big weight example. Back on topic for the thread, I really have a hard time reading about some of the older practices. As a student in Math I studied alot about necessary and sufficient conditions. I find it tedious to wade through all the unnecessary stuff to find all good stuff.
Sure, have sex. Just don't ejaculate every time. I have practiced seamen-retention techniques before, with interesting results. Generally, the day after practicing, I am a lot more alert and active early on than I am if I "complete". But, really, it's up to you. Sex is good, don't give up on it.
Well, either you're a "natural" or possibly unconsciously influenced by your instructor, but most practitioners of KSW rarely do more than the basic description in the KSW Textbook when performing KCJK. This is why I referred to the tightening of these muscles when breathing as advanced. Actually, it IS a fairly basic concept when it comes down to Ki Gong training. I'm sorry if you find me too verbose, as I really try to be concise and not over-analyze when discussing these things. I'll work harder at it, though, as I'm sure there's always room for improvement.
I wasn't refering to you. More like the taoist wikipedia page, and most of the books on Ki and related subjects that I have looked through.
I read this forum every day, and post on occasion...I can say with ease that you are my favorite contributor to the Kuk Sool forum, with Choi Young Woo as a close 2nd... Keep It Up!!! take care, --josh
Well...before a tournament, it might just give you a more relaxed state of mind, which could help with nerves. But before a grading might not be so wize...suppose it depends how energetic you are!!! LOL
Thing is..if you are supposed to abstain for 48 hours BEFORE training, and you train 3 or 4 times a week.....doesn't leave much scope does it!
