Settling the brain damage debate

For sports where this is deemed enough of an issue, would some form of head gear be help much? Doesn't have to be a helmet like in american football but some padding could help.

 

Aikido would be one way to avoid brain damage

 

I don't think that's really true. Watch a match of any other combat sport that allows head strikes and count how many head strikes you see, then watch a boxing match and do the same.

Boxing is all punching; there is no kicking, no clinching, no throwing, etc. That means more strikes to the head. Also, in a sport like MMA one good shot to the head that knocks a guy down and renders him defenseless for even a few seconds can end a match, whereas in boxing a man who gets knocked down gets back into the match as long as he can get up before he's counted out, which means that his head continues to take a beating long after the fight would have ended in other sports.

I think it's fair to say that, at least among combat sports, boxing poses a unique risk of head injury.

 

While true, I don't think this would be enough for medical groups to get boxing banned. If boxing groups can show that it is no more dangerous than other full contact sports then they will claim banning boxing is hypocritical and it will get thrown out.

 

As the rules and target area get more and more restrictive, it stands to reason that the number of hits to a specific target increases. In K1 you see less head attacks than in boxing.

Then again, you get someone like mighty moe who always looks like he wants to decapitate his opponent.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoYLIgYkFTU"]Mighty Mo Knockouts - YouTube[/ame]

 

This is my point - when defenders of boxing point out that other sports are worse for head injuries, doctors come back with "yeah but in boxing head contact is deliberate", which is medically irrelevant.

 

I agree. They are not helping there argument by bringing this up.

 

I totally agree with you, it would be my defence if they tried to ban them, but it only takes one good shot to give someone serious damage.

And let's be honest, once you get down on that mat and start with the ground and pound, some of those shots can be horrifying in comparison to what boxers take. Especially when you have a brute the size of Lesnar dishing it out (I still remember the ground beating he gave Mir in his rematch). There's less padding on the gloves and they are lighter too.

Does head gear make that much of a difference? You generally wear it at amateur level, but I don't think it's going to stop your brain from smashing around against your skull really.

 

The BMA say that, not all drs, especially not the ones that work ring and cageside.

Ethics however are relevent to medicine, but when the BMA say they want it banned, they could do with being a little clearer as to why.

Extra padding and headguards etc reduce the facial damage, but increase the duration and torque of the blows taken, which increase the chance of both sudden, and longterm brain injury. If boxing wants to change to be safer they need to end matches when a fighter is rocked much quicker then they do currently.

MMA is safer because of the smaller gloves, and the quicker stoppages, however in the uk theresno regulatory body to enforce time off after KO'S and organise real medicals etc which is a really dangerous situation for the sport to be in.
Although I belive the org "Safe MMA" Is trying to change this.

 

I don't really see how smaller, lighter, gloves make it any safer. Is this a proven fact?

Not to mention I think a knee or elbow to the head would likely have a higher chance of doing more damage, negating gloves in most combat sports as a defensive point anyway. Gloves are only really there to protect your hands more than anything else.

 

And considering this bloke is 127kg those punches have mass behind them!

 

Good for her. My comment was a generalisation, and I know it doesn't apply to all doctors. The NHS is slowly moving towards a more open and accountable way of making policy decisions, involving all the stakeholders and making sure a balanced view of the evidence is taken. However, (and this is also a generalisation) the medical profession as a whole tends to be resistant to change, and in some fields at least people are reluctant to let go of old ideas.

 

Well yes ok that was a slip of the tongue, as it were.

I agree that ethics are relevant to medicine but I don't think they apply in terms of authorising doctors to give advice based on their personal moral ideas rather than medical science. It would not be ethical for a Catholic doctor to give people misleading advice about the merits condom use just because he doesn't personally approve of it for religious reasons; he should confine his opinion to the medical facts. Likewise I question the ethics of calling for a ban on boxing, based on the purported medical reason of head injuries, when other sports that you do NOT want to ban are actually worse, just because the spectacle of boxing is not to your taste. If the #1 concern is preventing sport injuries then all that matters is preventing as many injuries as possible, irrespective of whether they are incurred deliberately or by accident. If I knew that rugby was more likely to give me brain damage than boxing was over the long term - even if this injury would be accidental - then I would consider it to be a demonstrably more dangerous hobby in that regard. It may be ironic, but it's the truth. However barbaric they may think boxing is, I don't see that this is really a case of medical ethics.

 

I guess I wasn't quite as clear as I might have been in my previous comments. I believe that there has only been one death from a concussion noted in Rugby Union, here in the UK, since injuries related to the sport have been monitored.

I saw this page - http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_a_0700.htm

They list 175 deaths from boxing here in the UK out of a cumulative total of 1465 boxing related deaths up to 2007.

United Kingdom (England [n=153], Scotland [n=8], Wales [n=11], and Northern Ireland [n=3], but excluding Channel Islands [n=1])

I also saw this list of deaths specifically here in the UK - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-puts-the-sport-back-in-the-dock-8563578.html

Deaths in the ring

1995 James Murray died after being knocked out by Drew Docherty. The Scottish bantamweight succumbed to brain injuries.

1994 Londoner Bradley Stone died from a blood clot on his brain after losing to Richie Wenton.

1986 Welterweight Steve Watt died of brain injuries after being defeated by Rocky Kelly in Fulham.

1980 Johnny Owen from Wales died six weeks after losing to Lupe Pintor in LA. He was knocked out and never regained consciousness.

Now as I mentioned before some big differences will depend on whether you are talking amateur vs professional etc but clearly boxing has a much higher death rate per capita than does rugby. I play rugby for 8 months of the year and I play with lots of other guys in their 30's, 40's and 50's (against people from 18 years old up) and there don't seem to be too many head injuries considering the huge numbers of people participating.

That being said I am not sure that banning anything is the best thing. I just think that people should walk into stuff with their eyes open. I am a bit of a hypocrit as I really like to watch a good boxing match.

I do know that I personally would recommend judo/wrestling/bjj to young people before boxing for safety reasons. Just my prejudice/take on things.

LFD

 

Thanks for taking the time to do the research and post.

I myself am quite surprised by the high number of mortalities directly associated.

 

There are some updates on the info I have included but now it is available as a pdf download for anyone interested.

http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsframe.htm

LFD

 

Stepping outside of boxing for a moment. Adding head protection can sometimes make the problem worse. In Amercian football the adding of cage facemasks and additional padding has lead to players using the head as a point of contact thus increasing helmet to helmet collisions and causing more problems and head injuries.

I have also read elsewhere that bare knuckle boxing reduces concussions while increasing the number of facial lacerations as well as hand injuries.

 

Can believe that. Almighty throbbing hand makes for difficult KOs.

Someone should do a poll here as to how many MAP members have had pin placements in their knuckle joints. Bet a statistically high number...

 

I agree with this. I recall reports saying that when head gear is used, the wearer feels that they can take greater risks with their head leading to more damage.

 

I think dehydration and weight cutting play a part in ko's and death in boxing.
Rugby could carry the same risk of receiving a ko strength impact as boxing but I'd still say boxing would cause more injury and death because rugby players aren't cutting weight leading up to a match.