Seriously considering taking up Rapid Arnis !!!

Hi guys

As the title says, currently I am seriously considering taking up rapid arnis something to supplement my JJJ training. I would like some advice from you guys as I am a complete novice in this field and have very limited knowledge regarding it, well I have tried to read up as much as possible regarding FMA, a lot of it make sense and a lot of it does not. I guess that is something that will come with time.

What I wanted to ask was when I go for a class what are the things I should look for in a rapid arnis class e.t.c? I am seriously confused and if it my post does sound like a mumble jumble then I do appologise,thanks.

Guvnor

 

Its a pity you didn't ask this a month or so back as Pat O Malley used to post on here!!!

 

I have been training in Rapid Arnis in Scotland for about a year now. I can give you a basic rundown, but it would be a whole lot better if Pat O'Malley was describing it, not me. I know exactly what you mean by some of FMA making sense and some does not - FMA seems to be an extremly diverse world, where terminology is not always consistently applied.

In a very general sense, I find it difficult to tie down core concepts in FMA apart from an exercise called Hubud, which is not unlike pushing hands of TaiChiChuan or Wing Chun.

Pat created Rapid Arnis based on a lot of experience of FMA in the UK and the Phillipines, competing successfully in a lot of competitions. Rapid Arnis is predominantly based on Doce Pares (GB-UK can explain the many details of Doce Pares), at least in terms of stick work.

With regard to the content, more or less as follows: Many double and single stick drills/applications, which lead into disarm techniques, often with follow-up strikes (this is a feature that I like - finish your opponent off.) Single and double knife drills and countering techniques; which in turn leads into empty hand applications including panatukan/gunting limb destructions/elbows (lots of.) The Hubud drills are used as traning exercises with sticks, daggers and in emptyhand i.e. Hubud is core.

There are at least 2 long stick types of drills (that I know of), grappling, locking applications, and single arm sword aplications.

If you are interested in competitions with a lot of contact, Pat does run the 'Black Eagle Society' where combatants don armor and compete in stick vs stick rounds i.e. if you are looking for that competative edge.

There is a lot more than that, but thats what I basically know about. There is a lot of subtlety in the stick handling, body movement and positioning of Rapid Arnis and FMA in general. Triangular footwork is very important.

When I first encountered Rapid Arnis, I thought it looked quite easy to learn. Now, a year on, I see that it is not simple to learn at all.

I have been to a few FMA seminars from related styles/schools, and I would advise training as much as possible in at least one FMA art - to gain some kind of grounding, and as many others to gain width; but this is only my personal outlook.

 

Even hubud isn't all that central. I didn't learn it in Doce Pares, but in Inosanto Kali. And they hadn't heard of it in my Modern Arnis group either.

I'm not sure what we'd call core concepts, but it would make an excellent thread in its own right.

*toddles off to start a new thread*

 

This is really getting to the hub (pun) of why FMA is difficult to fathom. Initially I have been spending a lot of time trying to identify patterns in the drills - which was difficult because the drills were always rotating without much repitition.

As well as Hubud, you could maybe add strike count systems (which seem to vary quite a bit), reverse chambering contact and espada y daga.

I had a bash at Innosanto Kali as well, and encountered Hubud there a lot as well, along with another myriad of drills.

There is some very clever stuff in FMA but it can be very difficult to get a clean picture of it.

In spite of Aikido's various problems, I find it remains for me a system with core concepts e.g. you will always be working on omote/ura variations with simultaneous attack and defence, body alignment; and you will find in almost every class at least one of ikkyo, irimi-nage and shiho-nage.

Likewise with TaiChiChuan, Pushing Hands is a core concept and there are classic texts to reference for forms and applications (which I have to confess I have not read.)

 

Correction reg Rapid Arnis and Doce Pares

I found out tonight that the influence of Doce Pares is in Rapid Arnis, but it is only one of many influencing parts.

There are stick drills called 'Totsada' (hope I have spelt it correctly) with side strikes high and low accross the body, after having controlled the attacker; and apparrently these drills come from Doce Pares.

Other sources of influence quoted to me tonight were Lightening Scientific Arnis and Balintawak, but I could not say in what aspects.

 

Hi Guvnor

Best advice I could give to you is to just go and try it. Tuhon Pat O'Malley is one of the most experienced FMA instructors in Europe and Rapid Arnis is certainly a rich art. Once you start, the confusion will reduce and you'll get to understand the value of the FMA much more.

Good luck in you training. Keep us posted.

Best wishes

Peter

 

As Peter said, you're better off just going to try it. Admittedly, i'm a little bit biased since i'm an instructor for RA, but i'd always advise someone to try something out before deciding whether or not to commit to it.

I myself come from a JJJ background, having studied with Kevin O'Hagan in Bristol, before moving to London and training with TJF while i was at uni. I have found that there are a lot of skills and techniques that can be directly applied to FMA and vice versa. As far as crosstraining is concerned, it's not so much a case of having to empty your cup to taste my tea. It's more a case of just getting a bigger cup - a phrase i nicked from my own instructor.

Everyone gets something different out of a martial art, so it is very difficult to specify certain things to look out for. Especially with FMA - every instructor i meet seems to have a different take on their system, and a different way of presenting it. This can either be very confusing, or very refreshing. But it can certainly make it difficult to provide a fully accurate description of their system. This is further complicated by the fact that FMA instructors also frequently train in other systems both inside and outside of FMA. This in turn influences the content of what they teach, and can even change the syllabus for their whole system (i know that Pat constantly reviews and refines the RA syllabus with his senior instructors - if nothing else, it certainly keeps his other instructors on their toes!).

The three most important questions i'd ask as a student are:-

1. Does the instructor communicate his knowledge to the class effectively?
2. Do i understand the combative principals of what i'm doing?
3. Am i enjoying the class?

Personally, i'd say that #3 is the most important. I've cross-trained in various other systems under some of the top guys in the country, and although #1 and #2 were often a resounding "Yes!" It was #3 that decided whether or not i stayed.

Good luck in your quest - be sure to keep us updated with how it works out for you

 

Hi all Back for a bit.

Well to answer your question, go try it and if you like it, do it, if you dont then dont do it is the easiest thing I can say. Each system has similarities and some very distinct differences and each instructor will interpret those systems in their own unique way. So really even in Rapid Arnis, although the core syllabus is the same across the board, each instructor can look and do it in a very different way.

I am a firm beleiver in that the Art must fit you, not the other way around and I beleive that within the Rapid Arnis System there is something for everyone and they can take from it what they want and need.

As for Rapid Arnis being predominantly Doce Pares I would have to disagree, you see many people assume that Doce Pares is but one style/system when in fact there are quite a wide variety of systems that go under the Doce Pares Umbrella both past and present. Yes I have been heavily influenced from many of the systems in Doce Pares over the past 25 years but that is only to be expected as I do spend a lot of my time training with them every time I go to the Philippines. But I also have many other influences to over the last 25+ years, for instance:

I was for a long time a JKD Kali practioner and instructor under Master Bob Breen, he also helped me and many others get exposure to numerous systems that have played a major part in the developement of Rapid Arnis in the early years and I have since also trained with many others in numerous systems, they have all gave me something that has added to the melting pot of what we do.

Some of the major influences are as follows (in no particular order)
JKD / Kali
Doce Pares (various systems within the group)
Balintawak
Modern Arnis
Pekiti Tirsia Kali
Inayan Serrada Eskrima
Lapunti Arnis De Abanico
Navales NAKEG

And a few more besides who have also gave some influence to the system and I respect and credit them all for their part in the development of the group.

That is the main reason the term Rapid Arnis for the group was used and not Doce Pares or any other systems name for that matter, as myself and GM John Harvey, we both originally put the syllbus together (which has been forever adapting over the years and I am sure will for many more) always had a main core principle too, Hit first, hit FAST and hit as many times as possible.

The FAST bit is important, Not relying soley on power, but speed, hence the name RAPID and with ARNIS being the most common name used in the Philippines, that and it seem to have a nice ring to it the two just sounded so good together and explained exactly what we do.

Also to name it after any one of the systems both of us have expeariance in would be an insult to all the other systems we trained in too, so rather than insult everyone it made more sence to call it 'The Rapid Arnis Systems', This was the original name for the group, but as we expanded over the years myself and GM Harvey after many years also decided to do our own thing and develop in our own way as we had our own likes and dislikes so eventually in 2001 the one group became two. My group being renamed Rapid Arnis International as I have people training under me in different countries and GM Harvey changed his groups name to Kapatiran Arnis.

Are we the same, Yes and no. Our cores are still the same, but we both have different ways of doing things, we both have different influences and we both have different ways of getting the message across, So to some we may look similar, but to each in both of the groups we are also very different too as both of us have different influences too.

Hope that helps and like I said, my best advise to you is to go try it out first, I am sure any decent instructor who is worth their salt will let you try a class or two for free so you can get the chance to make your mind up and chose the right system that is suited to you.

Best regards

Pat

 

Welcome back Pat.

 

I'd like to use my 1000th post to welcome Mr. OMalley back, and extend hope that we'll be seeing him around here more frequently.

 

Great to see you back, and hopefully for a long time aswell

 

Thanks guys and thanks Pat for the very usefull and informative post.

I will definitely go down and check it out but after Ramadan now as to train on empty stomach is a bit hard. I will surely keep you guys updated and once again thanks .

 

the cat always comes back!

welcome back to the cat in the pat!

 

LOL How about that...the cat is Pat!

What's new Pussy Pat...Whoa...Whoa...Whoa

 

Hello all.
I'm currently interested in taking up FMA i have seen a couple of programs on the internet and thought it looked interesting and enjoyable to learn, i've been training in krav maga for the past few month's now i don't want to sound like i'm having ago about it but i find it abit repetitive and one dimensional, it just doesn't seem to suit me.
Anyway i have managed to find a place to start and just wanted to see by chance if anyone had heard of the place.
http://www.jkdlondon.co.uk/

 

Agent Smith,

I don't know anything about JKDLondon but I can recommend the following Escrima Schools.

http://www.dgdocepares.co.uk/
http://www.docepares-europe.com/
http://www.londondocepares.co.uk/

Can you tell me where you did Krav Maga as I am thinking of doing it?

LB

 

http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk/index.asp

That's the place, instructors are good and it's all good like i said it just wasn't me.
I take it your from London so there's plenty of choices there for classes to go to.

Cheers for the links i'll look into all of them.

 

shouldn't you have put up your own thread?

 

Hi Agent Smith,

http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk/index.asp

This was the place i was thinking of going to.

Can you tell me what the training was like there?

Thanks

LB