Pencak Silat consists of four aspects: 1. Mental spiritual aspect 2. Cultural / artistic aspect (Seni) 3. Self defense (Bela Diri) 4. Sports (Olah Raga) So you can say that seni is one of the aspects of Pencak Silat, but only when you use the word seni in the context of pencak silat. The indonesian word seni means in general 'art', so the word can also be used in relation to other arts. Garuda...
CQC, Pencak - is the (Bahasa) Indonesian native spelling and some times refered as the new spelling Pentjak - is the Dutch spelling and some times referred to as the old spelling. The Dutch occupied Indonesia for roughly 400 years and a lot of the spellings were based on the Dutch alphabet and then after the Indonesians won their freedom from the Dutch in 1949 the spelling of the language changed to fit the Indonesian culture. Seni - means art or skill: In the context of Silat it means the cultural artform of the movements. Hope this helps you. Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Thanks for the replies. The only reason I'm asking this because it is to my understanding that the Silat itself are consists of two parts. The first part-the pencak ( the malaysian transliteration of the pentjak) which consists of all the dances and bunga (the flower). And the Seni (the art,skill)-which consists of all the buah/jurus (the fruit).
Well, I'm by no means the expert and I'm sure that more knowledgeable folks will come along to correct me, but I thought that I would throw in my impressions to your query. It seems to me that you might be combining a couple of differing understandings to come up with the reasoning for your question. Pencak/Pentjak Silat as I understand it, is two terms that combine to become one subject. The confusion gets compounded by the fact that the definitions aren't exact and in fact can differ from culture to culture even though they speak the same language. From what I can average out the most common, basic definition of these terms can be stated this way. Pencak/Pentjak is a term for choreographed movements performed freely observed by others. Silat is the application of individual and combined movements meant as a system of combat to be kept secret. The clearest example of the difference as I understand it is in the performance of kembangan. The pencak is what is seen by the audience when the kembangan is performed, where as the silat is the way the moves that make up the kembangan performance where actually meant to be applied in a fight and this is not meant to be demonstrated to public eyes. Pencak and silat are the terms that I most often hear typified in the flower (bunga) and fruit (buah) analogy. Seni is a term that, in addition to the usage Garuda mentioned, I most often hear in the context I believe you are referring to as replacing the pencak/pentjak term when applied to Malaysian expressions of the fighting arts (as opposed to the various Indonesian expressions) and from what I can tell (and again a direct translation is difficult) is translated as the internal essence of high artistic expression. So the simple answer to your question seems to be simply a matter of two different terms preferred by different countries (Malaysian and Indonesian) who share the same basic language when referring to their traditional martial arts. Hope this was mostly accurate and was somewhat helpful to you.
CQC, First off Pencak is Indonesian not the Malaysian translation for Pentjak and the Malaysians don't usually use the term Pencak/Pentjak! The Malaysians use Seni more often than the Indonesians. The saying goes there is no Silat without Pencak! Basically it means this: Pencak is the movements- techniques, langkas, jurus, flowing. Silat- is the application of the movements If you have ever seen the female Balinese dancers perform, that is Pencak only, because there is no understanding of the application of the movements for fighting. Most people just say Silat as that has become the identifier of the art and used alone as more of a combat style but when you dig deeper you will find they use Pencak Silat or Pentjak Silat as the complete name. Seni really doesn't have anything to do with Pencak Silat. Seni is added to a style to denote their particular style. You can have Seni with all Pencak Silat but the term doesn't need to be in there for it to apply. The term Seni is used in all forms of expression like: Dance, Painting, Music, Sports, cooking and etc. It is not an integral part of the formation of Silat but more of a description or level of understanding in what is going on in that expression. Example: Seni of cooking = the (art/skill) of cooking. Has absolutely nothing to do with Pencak Silat does it? On the other hand you will never here Pencak of cooking or Silat of cooking! Hope this helps you to understand Pencak, Silat & Seni better. Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Regarding the meaning of the word pencak silat I would like to note the following: The combined word pencak silat is relatively young. The Indonesian MA that we now know as pencak silat used to be called differently depending on the area where it was practiced. To name a few names (some are still used): pencak, silat, silek, penak, parmoca, etc. After WWII the idea arose to found an association/federation for the Indonesian MA. However concerning naming it was the prolem that many different names existed. The most common names were silat on Sumatera and pencak on Java and you already guess what happened is that it was decided to take the combination word "Pencak Silat" as name for the Indonesian MA. Pencak silat as word was first officially used at the foundation of the IPSSI in 1948. Nowadays next to official naming pencak silat, the different local names are also still used. Furthermore some people began to give a different meaning to pencak and silat in the word and that the words imply different aspects of the PS. To me the different aspects of the PS are the 4 aspects of PS (mental spiritual, seni, bela diri (and olah raga)) and the words pencak silat is just a name given to this MA. In my opinion the name pencak silat could even be thought of by bystanders, if you look at the meaning of the words. The word pencak is derived from the word mencak-mencak, which means something like "a little bit crazy jumping and dancing". The word silat is derived from the word si kilat, which means "like lightning" So these meanings do not refer to artistic part and effective part of PS. However the meanings of the 4 aspects do refer to the artistic/cultural part of PS (seni) and bela diri (self defense) refers to the effective part. Garuda...
Peace to all, I must say that Garuda's info about the origin of the term pencak silat is correct. The idea that pencak means the movement and the silat means the combative application, I think, can be traced to the Dutch pesilats who did not understand enough regional languages in Indonesia and were forced to explain the meaning to people less knowledgable when they began to teach silat in Holland and in the US. To add to Garuda's explaination, it must be remembered that the people who actually came together to develop pencak silat after independence (1945) were mostly western educated young intellectuals, and the term pencak silat was used as a compromise so that all the styles from all Indonesia could be brought together and be made into a sport which they hoped would eventually be played in the Olympics. The movements in dance are most often not related to pencak silat, especially Bali dance! Tari Randai from West Sumatra is closely related to silat and some Jawa dance (Buto Cakil, Anoman, bala dhupakan) are also related to silat, as is the Sunda Jaipong. However in Jawa in particular, dance (beksan, in high Jawanese) is considered more spiritually refined than silat. Before Independence (1945) the word pencak in Jawa meant what the words pencak-silat or just silat mean now. In West Jawa, the Sunda people called their art maempo. In West Sumatra they called it silek, and the Bugis I think called it pamoncak. Mencak-mencak in Jawa (and also adopted into Indonesian) means to make crazy movements (in anger) jumping around and swearing. It is indeed related to the word pencak, but the word pencak is the root word. Mencak-mencak means to jump around like mad as if you knew pencak. It is very interesting that you mention this Garuda, I would guess you have a good teacher who knows his/her cultural background well. Yours is the best explaination of the words pencak silat I have read in the web. Forget about sayings like 'without pencak there is no silat' and 'pencak is movement-silat is the application' and other explainations like that. Sayings like this are all very common in the web and the West and though they sound reasonable they are made up by people who only had a superficial knowledge of the culture that surrounds silat. Seni, means art. Any art. In fact, silat is a seni-beladiri or an art of self defence. In silat there is what is now called silat seni, and this means more or less the same as the older 'bunga' or 'kembangan' ....the artistic aspect of silat. Warm salaams to all, KC
Kiai Carita, Thank you for this compliment. I am quite proud that I have had the honour to know my teacher and what he has taught me. Sadly for me and lucky for him my teacher has decided to return to Indonesia to enjoy his pension. Garuda...
wasn't the word penca also used in sunda? do penca and maenpo refer to the same things? as i've been taught, they are distinct terms, but there is overlap. part of penca is latihan (practice, where you play at fighting). one of the meanings of maenpo that i've been taught is 'forget to play,' referring to actually fighting. but penca also includes flowery performance such as ibing/kembangan, which is related to fighting, but far enough removed that it's not considered part of maenpo, whereas latihan is a part of maenpo. do you disagree with o'ong maryono's conclusion that in west java (and west sumatra), there is a distinction made between art and self-defense? (http://www.kpsnusantara.com/rapid/rapid1.htm) maybe this is the reason for the pencak=art and silat=application idea, which is simplified to the point that it's not accurate. or maybe i'm a slow learner, and didn't understand what my teachers were trying to explain. tim
latihan penca, ibing, maempo, silat .... Peace to all, Tim you are correct that the word penca(k) is also used in Sunda. The word pencak is also used in West Jawa and the meaning does overlap with maempo ( from maen poho: play poke). When you say pencak you can mean the whole meaning of self-defense and art, and you can imagine one or more players, but when you say maempo you usually have in mind the aplications and imagine more than one person. The term maempo is only used in West Jawa and usually if you can do maempo you can also easily do ibing. I don't think O'ong said there was a rigid distinction between pencak and silat, rather, the Sundanese use the term penca-ibing when the art is used as a social and public performing art using music, which is not found in Central or East Jawa traditional systems. The ibing refers to the dance more than the penca. I don't think that 'forget to play' is an accurate translation of the compound word maempo. The forget bit I think comes from the maen - play. When you play and get totally immeresed in your play you forget. The play part is very important in all Indonesian arts and you don't want to forget to play, rather you must remember that you should be playing! I think (my Sundanese is very basic but I will check with some Sundanese friends) that poho actually means to poke hard or to hit. In Betawi, the term used is maen-pukulan: play strike. I agree with all what O'ong said in the article you refered to, only he did not make one historical fact clear: that division of the Mataram kingdom in the 18th century divided the kingdom into the two kratons of Surakarta and Yogyakarta. Merpati Putih for instance dates back to the Mataram Kartasura Kraton which was split into Surakarta and Yogyakarta. Tim, you might be correct in your hypothesis on how penca in the West came to mean the art and silat the application. In modern Indonesian the term silat means martial arts, Jet Lee does silat - Silat Cina. However when you say pencak silat, it usually refers only to Indonesian martial arts. This covers also Indonesian martial arts that are very influenced by Chinese arts (what in the West is called Kuntao) like Perisai Diri, Bangau Putih, Mustika Kwitang, Kera Putih and many others. Nowadays the word Kuntao is hardly used anymore in Indonesia except by the older generation - people who were playing before independence. Currently there is also a new development in Indonesia regarding the schools that specialize in 'tenaga dalam' like Satria Nusantara, Bambu Kuning, Sinar Putih, Hikmatul Iman, and others. Where as in the past this type of knowledge was part of pencak silat learned at a certain level, nowadays there are many schools that teach only 'tenaga dalam'. They do not call themselves pencak-silat schools. Latihan means practise so you do latihan in ibing, in penca, in silat, in pencak silat and also in tenaga dalam. You can also do latihan teater, latihan piano, latihan gitar, latihan vokal. The modernist elders who founded IPSI kategorized silat into 4 aspects (mental-spiritual, self-defence, art, and sports) but actually a closer look at the tradition would add one more important aspect: healing. Warm salaams to all, KC
I believe that it must be something along those lines, because my understanding of the definitions of the terms (pencak = performance and silat = hidden application) came directly from O'ong Maryono's book. My guess would be that it was the cleanest way he could find to give an averaged-out definition to the terms given the varying usages and differing origins of the terms throughout the various local cultures of the Malay penninsula and Indonesian archipelago.
Monyet Nakal, It must be how it is explained in English because yes Mas O'ong uses a similar meaning, my "Indonesian" teacher from "Bali" explained it that way and many foreigners who studied in Indonesia and/or under Indonesians explain it that way! So I will still be using my definition! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
You must have missed the BASICALLY part! It doesn't say Exact interpretation. Basically it means this: Pencak is the movements- techniques, langkas, jurus, flowing. Silat- is the application of the movements Then why does Mas O'ong say something similar and why did my Indonesian teacher say something similar and many others who have studied in Indonesia and/or under Indonesians say something similar? That is in direct conflict with my Indonesian Bali Teacher who said it was! And why he made me watch all those long films of the Balinese Dancers pointing out the Silat movements so I could watch the flavor and learn to move in a similar fashion instead of a typical American. No offense but can you or Garuda prove this! Or is it a maybe just believed by some? Is there any written record of how the words Pencak or Silat came to be and which of the 250 or so languages spoken in the Malay Archipelago did they come from and how many of those languages do you speak? Then what or how would you explain the words to foreigners especially of the English language? Thank you, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Dear ICT, I am not offended. I believe that everyone is allowed to have his ideas and opinions. Regarding the meaning/origin of the words pencak and silat it is easy to find out. Just ask! You could mail O'ong for example and ask him what he thinks of the origin and meaning of the word pencak in relation to mencak and of the meaning of si-kilat and silat. You could also ask people you might know at the IPSI and Persilat. Indeed as KC said silat as a word is nowadays used in Indonesian for Martial Art. But this is not the origin of the word as I said earlier it was derived from the words si kilat. In indonesian it is quite common to abbreviate words like krises monetair (monetary crises) became krimon, he same happened with silat. Indeed in the meaning of nowadays (martial art) you can go further and say martial art = self defense = movements to defend yourself = movements that you apply to defend yourself etc. This is very logical, but it does not exactly pin point the true meaning of the word. The same counts for the meaning of pencak this is not flow, movements etc., because then the word gerak would have been used and jurus and langkah are Indonesian words already. That the words pencak and silat were combined is not something that KC and I made up, also in an article of O'ong he mentions what I previously mentioned. That the word silat was mainly used in Sumatera and words like penca(k) and mencak were used in Java. See below a quote from his article (see his site): Sometimes it is good to find deeper meanings in words and sometimes you realize that there is no deeper meaning and that a word is just what it is. Garuda...
Regarding the healing aspects I know that Satria Nusantara (SN) is stressing this. First of all practitioners of SN practice SN for their own health, next to that they say that when you reach a higher level you could use your skills to heal people. You can read more abou this on the website of SN: http://www.satria-nusantara-europe.org/english.htm Garuda...
Pencak, Silat and Healing Peace to all, and special hormat to teacher Eddie! I think that Garuda's quote from O'ong's site explains that penca and silat originally meant more or less the same thing, only from different regions. How do I prove the meaning of mencak-mencak? Well, how about this... Rooney mencak-mencak karena disemprit wasit : Rooney went nuts because he the refferee blew his whistle at him...Ayolah, tak perlu mencak-mencak berdebat tentang silat : Come on, no need to go ballistic debating silat. To teacher Eddie, I think it is fine to keep your definition but do understand that there is more background than the clear cut definition you are used to. Actually the West's hegemony over the written word will guarantee that your definition will one day probably also used in Indonesia. How to explain to a Western student who doesn't understand Indonesian or any regional language? Not easy, explain it the long story, I would suggest. Silat is a living art and the meanings of words expand and contract with usage. On healing in silat: traditionally silat teachers are also healers -something overlooked by the modernist silat elders around Independence who formed IPSI. At least they are expected to be able to mend broken bones and muscles and often even wounds. If you can not heal injuries in your class you can not be considered a proper teacher, rather you would be only a trainer. The essence of healing is love and empathy. Nowadays many schools specialize in the healing aspect like the SN website provided by Garuda says. This is a new development in silat, as society becomes more modern more threats to life come from the individuals lifestyle rather that pirates or robbers and people like Dr Maryanto have responded to that demand. My teacher Suhu Gunawan Rahardja of PGB Bangau Putih has also created a health sylabus for over 35s, and in his private practise in Kebon Jukut Bogor he recieves hundreds of patients daily. In keeping with tradition he does not demand payment although people are welcome to put an envelope into a box supplied outside the 'surgery' room. For British players, Steve Benitez from Hendon Walisongo has repeatedly mentioned the healing aspect in his MAI magazine articles. His Cimande teacher was also a healer. Indeed, the Cimande village is thriving as an alternative 'hospital' for victims of traffic accidents Jawa and many people there have rooms and beds just like a hospital to cure (mainly) broken bones using massage and the famous 'balur Cimande', a version of which you can obtain form Tellner and his wife! There was an interesting legal wrangle a few years ago when a student from SN (a co-founder actually) started his own school using moves from SN plus inventions. SN went to court to try and patent their moves but the court rejected the claim because SN also got their moves from an older school. I will be leaving London for Jawa tomorrow and might be away from the internet for a while. If any MAP-er from around London would like me to bring any specific silat related stuff I wil be happy to oblige. Steve Benitez has asked me to bring some Westener head size destars and some peasant selendangs and if anyone wants any other stuff, please PM me and I will try to sort you out. Please be patient as in my village in Jawa internet access is not easy. God Willing, I will be back in Camden at the end of March 2006 and will begin community gamelan-kembangan sessions in the Spring for another public space silat-do in the summer. I have been eyeing the public space called Primrose Hill actually -the highest point in London- and a lovely park which would make an ideal place for free for the love of it summer silat picnic! It is the only ground in town wit a 360 degree horizon, great for energy training. Warm salaams to all, KC.
i don't speak sundanese, so i cannot speak on the origin of the word 'maenpo.' the meaning i was given came from a native sundanese speaker and practicioner of silat, in response to why his art was sometimes called maenpo. he did not state that it came from 'maen poho.' did west javanese silat used to be called maen poho, or is poho just a guess on the origin of the -po suffix in maenpo? the reason i said 'one of the translations' is that i have heard other meanings for maenpo from other practicioners. i was under the impression that the origin of the word maenpo was obscured or has since developed multiple meanings. as far as i know, ipsi (ikatan pencak silat indonesia) was where the phrase 'pencak silat' originated. it was coined in an attempt to be inclusive of all the arts of the country, and thus chose (presumably) two of the most prevalent terms for the fighting arts of indonesia. penca was used in sundanese, pencak was also used in javanese- so that word most likely has it's origins on java somewhere. silat was used on sumatera- i suspect that it was from melayu, while silek was used by the minangkabau. but, i don't know for sure. it would be interesting if someone who speaks bahasa indonesia how has access to any ipsi documents that mention the reasoning for the choice (ipsi's website was no help to me). easily- they mean the same thing. they're two words from different languages that were combined in an attempt to be inclusive of all arts of a country that speaks a variety of languages. this will satisfy most people that ask; it's accurate, but not precise. those who desire to actually understand will be willing to attempt to learn some of the cultural context in which those words were used. simply giving two exclusive meanings is inaccurate, and a disservice to those curious about the arts. of course, if you want to say that is the meaning of those words relative to the style you teach, that is another thing entirely, but it should not be taken to mean that the definitions are universal. but, i also hold the opinion that teachers should emphasize that terminology is often specific to a particular style. words change meaning when taken out of their original context. similarly, study of an art should include at least a cursory study of the culture from which it comes. tim
