Self Promotion or joining an Outside Organization.

get over yourselves...it doesn't matter a ****-bit to you if somebody else is really a specific belt or not...

you two are getting sooooooooooo boring.

 

A wonderfully liberal view which allows frauds to exist and expoit others.

 

1) Get the dates and do the math. Leoning came to Ca. in 1958 as a brown belt, the same year that Gascon Created Karazenpo and became Sijo.

2)Possibly, but like I said it has to of been at least 4+ years after he proclaimed himself Sijo.
3) My last Gung Fu Instructor Felix Macias, does not certify, never has. He has given me his blessing to teach my own system and it is reflected that way on my tree and we remain good friends and will always be my instructor. http://www.scientificstreetfighting.com/kempolineage.html

4)Do the math. Emperado started Kenpo in 1946 and began creating his Kajukenbo in 1947. Are you saying that Emperado earned his 5th degree in 1 year under Chow?? Maybe you should read Johns corrected version of Emperados bio.

5) Honrary rank, rank recognition and rank promoting is interpeted differantly depending on the organization but I definately was NOT given honorary rank and I did not do like Gascon did and take the founder title without having a black belt. In a way that bastardized the whole lineage. Like I said, it is better to go to an outside organization than to promote oneself.
Never put myself in the same league or even close to those two legends. I’m just saying that you can’t slam other organizations for doing the same or similar as your upline all the way up to your founder. And lets not forget the fact that Gascon did not train pesares students who you clain their syste is so differant, but he promoted them to very high ranks. Several people are listed at senior ranks on Gascons tree but on Pesares tree thet are 1st degrees. It may be that Pasare was ****ed because Gascon recruited them and demoted them to 1st degree. But if gascon can rescind rank, Pesare can can too. How can Gascon give out such high rank when Peasre, their instructor says differant.
http://simeonegpesare.tripod.com/index1.htm

Grandmaster George Pesare
First Knight Grandmaster Roger Carpenter
Second Knight Grandmaster Donna Vinbury e-mail
Third Knight Grandmaster Herb Paquette
Fourth Knight Grandmaster Vincent Pezzi
Fifth Knight Grandmaster Armen Garo
Sixth Knight Dave Wigal e-mail
Seventh Knight Robert Messore e-mail
Eighth Knight Grandmaster Shea Carpenter e-mail
Ninth Knight Sean Phinney e-mail
Tenth Knight Grandmaster Gilman Whiting e-mail WWW
Eleventh Knight Linda Jean Herzog First Woman
Twelfth Knight Ray Campanini e-mail
Fourteenth Knight Grandmaster Marc Ayotte e-mail
Fifteenth Knight Grandmaster Dolores Bastone
Sixteenth Knight Grandmaster Michael Mullen
Al Leonetti
Dennis Passaretti
Nick Cerio
Don Rodrigues
Jean Guy Angell WWW
Ralph Bomba
Fred Menna
Gary Monti
Michael Luster
Peter Vieira
Lisa Pesare
Anthony G. Pesare
Anthony M. Pesare
John Lombardi
Anthony Cipriano
Hugo Rossi
John Riccitelli
Debra Vierra
Joseph Maggio
Mark Marcantonio

At the annual Black Belt reunion, Grandmaster Pesare may, at his discretion promote a non Kaito Gakko student to the rank of Black Belt. Although rare, only loyal students of honor are afforded this privilege. This special rank means that the individual did not undergo the 3 day Knighthood Black Belt Test and apprenticeship.

Jesse Dwire IV


Robert Ryan
Paula Pucino
John Levesque
Robert Hamlin
Joel Weltman




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the event of my departure from this planet:
Promotion Committee:
Promotions are EARNED by a unanimous decision from the Promotion Committee
Grandmaster Roger Carpenter
Grandmaster Donna Vinbury
Grandmaster Herb Paquette
Grandmaster Vincent Pezzi
Grandmaster Gilman Whiting
Grandmaster Marc Ayotte
Professor Linda Herzog
Professor Ray Campanini
David Wigal


9th Degree Grandmaster Roger Carpenter
Grandmaster Donna Vinbury
Grandmaster Herb Paquette
Grandmaster Armen Garo
Grandmaster Vincent Pezzi
Grandmaster Gilman Whiting
Grandmaster Shea Carpenter
Grandmaster Marc Ayotte
Grandmaster Dolores Bastone
Grandmaster Michael Mullen

8th Degree Linda Herzog
Don Rodrigues
Ray Campanini
Nancy Lee Ambrosia Cerio

7th Degree Dennis Passeretti
David Wigal
Robert Messore

6th Degree Vacant
5th Degree Fred Menna
Sean Phinney
Jean Guy-Angell

4th Degree Al Leonetti

3rd Degree Vacant
2nd Degree Vacant

1st Degree Gary Monti
Michael Luster
Peter Vieira
Lisa Pesare
Anthony G. Pesare
Anthony M. Pesare
John Lombardi
Anthony Cipriano
Hugo Rossi
Debra Vierra
Joseph Maggio
Mark Marcantonio

Deceased Nick Cerio
Ralph Bomba
John Riccittelli




The following will remain 1st Degree Black Belts for Eternity: Robert Barber
Charles Lee
Kevin Gruca
Marie Barkley
Ken Pistacchio
Ray Calouri
Robert Ryan
Paula Pucino
John Levesque
Robert Hamlin
Joel Weltman
Pat Azarian

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Also on my tree it clearly states:
Hanshi Lou Angel helped guide James's Kempo system full circle to a new level encompassing Karate, Ju Jitsu and Gung Fu. With Hanshi's guidance and support Kempo Ju Jitsu is continually evolving into a "complete fighting solution."

Hanshi Angel a devoted member of the World Head of Family Sokeship Council has recognized James Kovacich as 5th Dan of his Kempo Ju Jitsu Fighting System and continues to "offer and deliver" total support to James Kovacich, the AKJA-Academy of Kempo Ju Jitsu and Association-Beikoku Fighting Systems and all of the AKJA's members.

 

I don't state anywhere that my system has any connection to Hawaii's lineage. Only that it is my system and the only one qaulified to guide me is my choice. No one here is related to my system, you don't qualify to judge me or anyone outside of your system. In 2002 I had been a martial artist for 29 years. I am justly where I belong in my system.

You want to continue training the slow way with kata and secret and hidden techniques but don't expect the "learning curve" for my students to be the same as yours because I don't waste my time or my students time with the "old slow teaching methods" that your systems are "bound" to.

 

I want to state that I started this thread with the expectation that we could discuss Self promotion or joining an outside organization. Which is better? and I also stated If this thread gets out of hand, to prove my point I will produce the needed dirt.

I have bookmarked all the info I need from the best authority I know of for Hawaiian Martial Arts. As long as my name and those who surround me keeps getting tossed around like dirt. I WILL CONTINUE TO POST THE TRUE DIRT OF THE JUDGING LINEAGE.

 

Alright Jim, you win. You're a real fifth degree black belt. I mean, my GOD, how could I have not seen it before?!? And, I guess Geary is really a seventh degree as well. Otherwise there's no way Angel would have promoted you guys like that right? Yeah, I guess going from having several colored belts to a fifth degree for you and going from a green-brown stripe to a seventh degree for Geary is totally justified as well. Sorry to hear that your Kung fu instructor doesn't give out rank to anyone. What a shame because I'm sure you'd be way higher than fifth degree if he did. Hey, I guess you're right about going to an outside organization too. I mean, if your own won't rank you, then go to someone that will right? Thank God that the Lou Angels of this world exist, otherwise martial arts masters like you and your fellow Angel product Geary wouldn't get the recognition that they deserve. Thanks for enlightening us with your story and letting us in on how talented and deserving of that rank you are. BTW, shouldn't Angel have given you higher rank than 5th degree since you're the Sijo of your art? Maybe you can find a council of elders to promote you to tenth too? I'll look around and see if I can't find an outside group to give you a tenth degree now that I feel so bad that you are so under-ranked.

Dan

 

You keep bringing Geary into this. I have nothing to do with him. I've spoken to Mr. Rash and I've heard his side and I've told him my views on everything until now, because it is you that is causing me to talk this caca. I respect the seniors but their timelines don't add up.


You've made accusations about me and Geary and judged the whole organization. I've stated the facts, nothing else. Hanshi certified in Japan. Gascon certified by no one before taking his foundership. Even Gascons bio, he admits that he trained part time leading up to his "creation."

I teach my own system. I don't have a title. I don't claim to teach someelses style like you blast the other guy for. You know you're lineage is fraudulent, thats why you had to switch Sijo's.

 

Well, I gotta admit, I have been called a lot of things in life, but a liberal has not been among them in a looooooong time.

I personally couldn't care less what the rank is of anybody that is teaching me. As far as I am concerned, the criteria to teach me something is simply knowing more than me, and not necessarily even that...and I would suggest the odds are that any of us could actually learn something from the next. Sitting around a message forum saying I rank higher than you" and "your rank isn't valid" and "my sensie can beat up your sensei" is just a stupid, childish, ignorant waste of time.

 

Here you go Jim. It'll have to hold you till you can find something else.

Here's the homepage and the certificate is attached.

http://www.geocities.com/danjo.rm/kayraytay.html

 

you don't seem very mature for a school teacher

I Feel Sorry For Your Students

 

Good comeback Jim.

 

And your not demonsrating a good reflection of your new instructor, your acting opposite.

And quit calling me Jim, only my family and friends call me by that name.

 

What ever you say Jimbo. Sorry to hurt your feelings man. You can keep the certificate though. I don't recind rank.

 

Yeah...that's why I sent it PRIVATELY Jim. I didn't think it was appropriate for a public forum. Congratulations.

 

Nothing you say or do is appropriate. YOU chose to post the "nice" part and I refrained from posting the rest. All best are off. Expect the trash to hit the roof.

 

Well...I do have a temper it's true. I probably shouldn't have written that to you that day despite the fact that I was replying to your post here:

 

I never said I was innocent and wouldn't of posted a private message. But this has gone to far and we can't erase the internet. I still find old versions of my website from time to time. In your eyes we are wrong. You're entitled to your opinion but when I do the trashin I quote facts and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

Well, either way, I've nothing left to say on this. Once I drift into sillyness, I've pretty much run out of steam.

 

I think where the difference between your view and David’s view lies is in definitions. For example, if someone advertised that they taught self defence the fact that they knew more than you could be a viable criteria to judge them on. Where it gets more complicated, and in my belief important is that if an instructor advertises that he teaches a specific art or his art is based on combinations of specific arts then his experience and skills in these arts should be valid. It is not enough to just be able to beat someone in a fight, they must understand the arts they are claiming to teach otherwise from a moral perspective it is false advertising. It takes advantage of people that know no better.

Having spent a number of years studying an art that was someone’s own style based on their study of Shorinji Kempo I have some idea of how it feels to be ripped off. I thought the instructor had legitimate experience and qualification; I had studied boxing and judo previously and to me he seemed to be skilled, he was certainly a tough guy and a good fighter. It wasn’t until I started training in Shorinji Kempo under a qualified instructor did I notice how poor his techniques where, the only reason they were effective was because of his shear strength and power. When done correctly the locks were much more painful and the throws much easier to apply. I learnt how to punch and kick with much more power and using much less strength. It was also the time I found out that my old instructor was only ever a brown belt, not a 5th dan like he claimed. This experience wasted four years of my life and left me with a legacy of bad habits that I needed to redress. The only benefit from it was doing a lot of live practice against the boxers that he managed and trained, and his security staff that he used to encourage to come along and fight us; however even this would have been so much better as a training tool if I had learnt the techniques properly.

Just as I don’t like to see someone being ripped off in the street, I also don’t like to see them being ripped off in more subtle ways like fraud, and claiming to teach something you hold no qualifications in is fraud. Just like muggings in the street the more we turn a blind eye and say it is none of our business, the more opportunity we give to those that want to perpetuate these actions. In the end it increases the chance of it happening to us or someone we care for.

 

I certainly don't like to see fraud or see any ripped off either, it sucks, but what was being done here wasn't preventing any of that from happening, it was just childish bickering and insults being hurled. There was little to nothing productive that came out of the conversation other than one party looking like an immature knucklehead.

Who am I, or anyone else to pass judgement on anybody? I am concerned about me and my training. I really have no place, nor does anyone else, to call out anybody as a fraud unless they are prepared to duke it out. Being a tough guy (or idiot) over the internet is real easy.