Self defence/Self Protection/Fighting/Martial arts

If ever there's a video that highlights the differences between Self defence/Self Protection/Fighting and Martial arts it's the latest Gracie Breakdown of the death of Tiago Guma.
I won't link to the video because it is horrific to watch. It's easy to find but not something I could feel OK sharing.
That said, if you can stand to watch it, it is a very stark reminder of the different goals of self defence, self protection, fighting and martial arts. How success in one area does not equate to "by-product" success in others.
It's a hard video to watch but worth it if self defence is important to you IMHO for the lessons it can impart on the dangers of ego or social violence compared to true unavoidable self defence or pro-active self protection.

 

It was truly chilling the way he casually executed him and then walked away. It really looked like he didn't give ending someone's life a second thought.

Not sure about the Gracie's message though. Is it really a failure of a black belt's school if they don't make it clear that you might die if you try to escalate a fight with someone holding a gun?

I appreciate them giving the more emotionally immature an "out" by giving the message that escalating conflict isn't in line with BJJ teachings, but if someone is reckless enough to act in the way shown in the video, I don't know how effective telling them it isn't wise would be.

Does make me very glad that I live in a country where the chances of conflict involving a firearm are slim-to-none.

 

Yeah it's not clear really where the fault lies. Personally I'd point a little finger at machismo Brazilian culture perhaps?
But overall I like the message about thinking through this stuff before it happens and targeting your training to your desired outcome.

Hell yeah.

 

Yes, that was good. They do always like to mention the superiority of their schools compared to other BJJ schools, and the "if you aren't being taught this then you aren't doing proper BJJ" is a common theme in their breakdowns, so I guess that sentiment in the video shouldn't be a surprise.

Putting aside morals and ethics for a second; the murderer had better tactics and situational awareness. The combination of bike helmet as shield/weapon in the lead with a pistol in the rear hand nullified however many years of training the BJJ black belt had.

 

The main thing that bothers me with the Gracie stuff is that they often say a lot of the right things but then also stuff that is completely at odds with the rest of the RBSD crowd.
With a grappling martial art all of their solutions tend to be grappling solutions. Whereas most (all?) RBSD systems prioritise striking in order to escape and not being connected to your attacker if you can help it (so you can hit and run, hit more people and ultimately escape).
They sometimes talk about neutralising an attacker and taking their time so they tire out. Everyone else stresses ending a confrontation NOW. Every second you aren't escaping is another second additional attackers, bystanders and weapons can come into play. Literally no one else in the RBSD world I can see advocates any sort of long game for SD.
When grappling is required I absolutely rate what they offer. They clearly know how violence goes down and how to navigate that world. I like their bullproof stuff for kids.
But there's clearly missing elements (pre-emption, combination striking, movement, footwork, etc) they don't acknowledge because it goes against their GJJ marketing.

 

I used to have some ego problems when I was younger. For all I know I still do, but haven't been put in situations that test it in a long while.
But I can't imagine deciding to advance on & escalate a fight, with me unarmed, against a guy with a gun, unless I had just lost complete control of myself in a blind rage or something. (I used to get blind rages when I was younger, though it was fairly rare... maybe 7-8 times that I can recall throughout my life, all prior to 20 years old.)
Looks like the unarmed guy could have left at almost any time before he tried a take-down on the gun guy.

 

He was in a car at the start. He could have literally driven away and come to no harm at all. That would have been prudent self protection.
I don't know the exact details of the altercation but it's looks like an ego fight to me. Some angry words and then neither willing to back down.

 

Most of the RBSD world sells ineffectual technique, poor striking, worse grappling and a sub standard training method with only a cursory nod to the peripheral aspects

Even if you take it that the Gracie boys only do grappling, they at least do ONE thing well

I frequently see gun and knife disarm being touted as options by Billy who trains in krav twice a week or Sally who does Defense Lab online - so much so I actually stop caring...let them waste money and get hurt. Its not my concern anymore

I have been preaching and teaching for YEARS about Self Protection and the realities therein, but because the message isn't a quick and easy fix the majority don't want to hear it

This sad situation with the BJJ guy is nothing new - and what is worse a raft of insipid and ineffectual martial arts schools teaching poor skills will use it to hype their own crap

 

Pretty much agree with everything being said. One thing that hasn't been mentioned/considered is that while we can't see what had preceeded this event, we also can't hear what's being said during what we can see. It is possible that allowing an armed man (who apparently is pretty collected about executing another human in a mechanical fashion) space by backing up is just as risky if not more so than closing. I have no idea what was said so we can't really assess the situation fully without that. Assuming the guy is giving off the intent to use the gun closing might have been an attractive gamble for an expert grappler.

For my money, the moment you get out of the car you messed up and survining this situation would be all about soft skills and sheer luck.

 

No need to pull over unless there was an accident and insurance details need to be exchanged, but it really didn't look like that.

I have been involved in countless road rage incidents. Heavy rush hour traffic leads to it too often.
I never needed to get out the car, keep the doors locked and pop the window open enough to use conversation to deal with it.
Not so easy on a bicycle when someone in a car is intentionally/persistently trying to run you over, but that's a different story.

The gunman had better fence/distance control, and obviously the gun.
The last part looked like he finished him.
I have never done any gun defense training, but I'm pretty sure the idea of not engaging in a fight when you can walk away applies in all unarmed/armed scenarios.

There are some good messages in the video, but it also sounds like some sort of disclaimer/T&C to save a lawsuit in future.

 

Wierdly I've just started watching it, and then stopped, it's essentially an advert for their classes/online videos, taking advantage of a real person's death, and video of said death, in the guise of "education" about self defence.

Which is very not cool.

( renners degree is in marketing, so yes that's what all the gracie breakdown videos are, mostly successful attempts at viral marketing)

 

It's so sad that someone died, and for what? A few seconds of heat that overtook him. This is a reminder to always keep your ego in check and be humble. It cost this man his life over something he would have forgotten about tomorrow.

 

Even if it bugged the hell out of him for the rest of his life, surely that's a preferable situation!

Knee Rider did make a very good point about backing up vs. moving in being a different dynamic with a firearm. Things can go from "I'm annoyed" to lethal force in a matter of seconds.

 

Unless you have bulletproof windows, that might have been an even worse option in this situation!

 

All good points, but "heavy rush hour traffic" to me means queues of traffic where driving away isn't an option.

 

Sure, all I'm saying is that if someone decides to get out of their car for an argument and/or fight when you're stuck in traffic, driving away isn't possible, and you most likely will have to engage verbally, as ignoring them would probably escalate the situation further. In that case, which is what I presumed axelb was talking about, locking your door, opening the window just enough to talk, and verbally de-escalating the situation seems like a good way to go.

Though, as I said earlier, if there is a fair chance they have a gun on them, staying in the vehicle might not be the safest option. Thankfully we don't have to worry about that.

EDIT: Just realised that you seem to be presuming that you are the one starting a road rage incident. I was presuming the opposite; that we were talking about being the victim of road rage. Maybe our assumptions say something about us.