Discussion in 'Judo' started by YODA, Jul 28, 2002.

  1. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    A question on Sangaku-Jime (Triangular Strangle)

    This is one of my "big guns" - the handful of basics that I choose to work & work & work rather than the more common approach of trying to learn every lock / choke etc and every variation thereof.

    So - what are your favourite positions for applying it (I currently use 8) - and do you have any particular set up that works well for you? Do you find it works well in cimbination with a particular move, transition or escape?
  2. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I've only ever used it in combination with a Jiji Gatame, but then thinking about it I've used a variation to escape on the ground from the prone position, more of a lever from out underneath and then try to enter the choke as a countermove.

  3. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Freeform

    Which way did you find it worked? Sangaku to Juji or the other way? What was your mode of entry?
  4. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I try to lock in the Sangaku and apply the jiji at the same time, the choke normally fails but distracts the guy enough to lock in the Jiji. Found another one, using the opps back for leverage instead of the back of the neck/upper back.

    Which Sangaku's do you use? I know theres a few good ones lying from prone, but I probably would only get them by accident.

  5. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    My basic 8 are...

    1. From my back - opponent between my legs (lots of set ups for this)

    2. From side control (Yoko-Shiho-gatame) Stepping over his head & rolling back.

    3. From under side control - when he hooks a leg with is arm

    4. From broken scarf hold - step over the head & arm (Similar to No.2)

    5. From Tate-Shiho ("Mount") when he under hooks one of my thighs.

    6. Rolling from the Turtle (lIek a rolling armbar but stepping over with the leg nearest his head instead the other into his hip.

    7. From the seated rear naked choke as he slips down to avoid the choke.

    8. From the standard JuJi Gatame - if I try to bear his grip with my foot but it slips through his arms.
  6. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Folks,

    would you get this on for example if; you suckered a guy in with a high leg kick, say axe kick, where he moved in for the takedown on the supporting leg, and you just wrapped him up? Or is that a bit fanciful and Hollywood?

  7. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Yes Andy - very fanciful & holywood :D I suppose it's possible but I can only think of one person who may be bold enough to try & also skilled enough to pull it off - Genki Sudo - what a guy!

    The technique is question is the one that gave you your name on my forum if I'm not mistaken :D
  8. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Dave,

    Yeah when I saw you post this, I did a search on Sangaku-Jime. All seemed very familiar ;). I did sit and think about this for a while, but my ideas for entries are restricted by a general lack of knowledge on grappling. Apart from the 'Hollywood' entry above, the only other ones I could think of were possibly arm-bar or figure four take downs, though bear in mind I'm thinking of starting in an upright position.

    Who is Genki Sudo?

  9. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

  10. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    There's too many legs and arms in that photo for just two people I'm sure, and it looks like the blondie is perfectly positioned to bite something off.
  11. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hehe - believe me Jimmy - Blondie only has ONE thing to bite in that picture - his own biceps!
  12. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Okay, what about defences and escapes...
  13. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    OK - here goes...

    As with countering any submission there are three times to do it - in order of effectiveness (best 1st) they are...

    1. On the setup / preparation (not leaving yourself vulnerable in the 1st place)
    2. As the submission is being applied
    3. When the position is ON.

    For the purposes of this discussion I'll assume we are talking about the most common application of the Triangle Choke - Applied on you when you are kneeling in your opponents guard. I will assume he has your right arm trapped.

    On the set up

    1. 1st things 1st Don't get yourself into a position where you have one arm in between his legs & one out. Both in is fine, both out is fine. One in one out = sleepy time :D

    2. If you're passing the guard (No.1 time to get triangled) keep your right elbow in contact with your right knee and inside his thigh as you pass. If he can't pull your arm through then he can't triangle or armbar you.

    3. People will often set up a triangle by bringing one or both knees high close to your shoulders. Be aware of this.

    4. Another very common setup is to place a foot in the crook of your elbow or on your biceps, tempting you to pull your arm back to free it. As you pull your arm back they will slip their leg over your arm and go for the triangle. Instead of breaking contact try doing a tight clockwise circle to wrap their ankle then go for the footlock ---- Oooops no footlocks in Judo!

    As the submission is being applied.

    1. This is a good time to pass the guard - in fact I sometimes use this as "Attack by Drawing" as we JKD people call it. I give my opponent the opportunity to go for the triangle and as he places his right leg over my shoulder I drive forwards and roll my left lat to his chest (around the outside) so that my left elbow comes all the way around to his left hip so I'm assuming a reverse scarf hold position (facing his feet) this pops open his attempted triangle and allows me to switch my base into a side mount (yoko-shiho-gatame)

    2. The most important thing to do as soon as you feel him going for the triangle is to keep your head up and keep his left leg from completing its move to on top of his right shin. One way to do this is to strongly bring your right arm around and to your right side. This keeps your shoulder inside the triangle - a key to minimising its effect. (also see point 2 in the next section)

    Once he has the position

    1. Tap LOL! Seriously - this is not an easy position to escape if the guy knows his stuff.

    2. A good thing to do is to get your right arm from across your chest i.e. over to the right. In fact, if you can do it get your right hand all the way under his lag and grab it with your other hand. This will prevent him from switching to the armbar if he feels the triangle is failing.

    3. Pop up to your feet & stack him up so that the pressure is on his neck - he will of course try to spin so that he's at an angle to you - there's a counter for every counter - fact!

    4. If he pulls down on your head (most people do and there really no need to) then tuck your chin in tight & pull your head out from between his legs - he'll probably try to switch to the armbar so turn your right hand thumb down & be ready to yank that out too.

    That's all I have time for right now - very deep subject!
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2002
  14. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Yep, thats quite lengthy!

    If we ever get a MAP meet going we'll give you 2hrs to do solely Sangaku and escapes ;)

  15. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    Awe - but I wanna teach armbars too

    and Muay Thai drills

    and stick grappling

    and stickfighting

    and knife disarming

    and focus mitt training

    and, and.....

    ---- how about you hire me a hall for a WEEK? LOL!
  16. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I was gonna say I wanna teach stick/knife disarms and armbars, but your much better at them than I am. How much do you pay your assistant Instructors? ;)
  17. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Say we're doing Sangaku from prone, how do you get your barring leg past your opponents arm, I've been having problems with some of the heavy-weight bruisers at Judo. ;)


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