Does anyone have any information regarding the fighting style from the movie, Gangs of New York? I heard it was called rough-n-tumble, and that it was an actual fighting style developed by the Five Point Gangs.
'Rough-n-tumble' was possibly a name ascribed to the way street gangs in the Five Points geographical area smashed each other's heads in, by historians long after the members of those gangs ceased to exist, rather than a systematic fighting style developed in partnership between the gangs.
Obake, Your thread title is slightly misleading in relation to the subject matter of your opening post. Boxing had rules long before the time when the film 'Gangs of New York' was set. You might perhaps be thinking of the Queensbury Rules, which are what govern boxing nowadays, but they were not the first rules by a long chalk. That might not be a direct answer to your question, but I hope that it will help you get a better understanding of boxing history, since it is clearly a subject which interests you. And as a completely irrelevant aside, some of my forebears settled in the Five Points round about the time when the film was set. But I don't think they were portrayed in the film!
In the US my experience has been that when members of generations of the Great War or WWII spoke of "rough and tumble" it referred to wrestling or wrestling based combat.
I don't think rough 'n' tumble is a system as such...more of a rule set. "When a dispute arose, fighters could either agree to fight "fair," meaning according to Broughton's rules, or "rough and tumble." " (From the wiki page).
That's awesome. I'm interested in hearing more about your forebears, if you have any other information to share.
i know of one particular street style thats called the 52 hand blocks, jailhouse rock, comstock these are all names for the same style it is was supposedly developed in prison
I've heard of Jailhouse Rock, or 52 Hand Blocks. Supposedly it's based on the 52 cards in a deck of playing cards used by prisoners that are incarcerated. I didn't know it was a real fighting style though. Concerning such criminal style of martial arts, how do police officers and black-belts in respectable schools and organizations feel about jailhouse rock? Is it accepted as a legitimate martial tradition by Black Belt Magazine and things like that? Or is it just another one of those things like the Lin Kuei that nobody really takes seriously?
Its nothing more than alcohol fueled, eye gouging, biting, hairpulling and genital stomping. "Rough and Tumble"? - see Van's explanation of the term. Does this sound like an organised style, its elements studied and refined, to you? "Ah, to return to the simpler times of pre-Civil War America, when people were polite to each other and there were an unusually high number of men missing eyes, noses, and ears. Those were the days of “rough and tumble” or “gouge” fighting, a popular form of backwoods combat that 1985 issue of The American Historical Review discovered to be the god-damned craziest thing ever. As you might have guessed from the name, one of the go-to moves in any gouging contest was (in the words of one participant) “to feel for a feller’s eyestrings and make him tell the news.” Biting was also popular, to the point that many gougers filed their teeth down to more effectively chomp off bits of their opponent." An eye-witness description: ..."The battle began - size and power on the Kentuckian's side, science and craft on the Virginian's. They exchanged cautious throws and blows, when suddenly the Virginian lunged at his opponent with a panther's ferocity. The crowd roared its approval as the fight reached its violent denouement: The shock received by the Kentuckyan, and the want of breath, brought him instantly to the ground. The Virginian never lost his hold; like those bats of the South who never quit the subject on which they fasten until they taste blood, he kept his knees in his enemy's body; fixing his claws in his hair, and his thumbs on his eyes, gave them an instantaneous start from their sockets. The sufferer roared aloud, but uttered no complaint. The citizens again shouted with joy. Doubts were no longer entertained and bets of three to one were offered on the Virginian." "But the fight continued. The Kentuckian grabbed his smaller opponent and held him in a tight bear hug, forcing the Virginian to relinquish his facial grip. Over and over the two rolled, until, getting the Virginian under him, the big man "snapt off his nose so close to his face that no manner of projection remained." The Virginian quickly recovered, seized the Kentuckian's lower lip in his teeth, and ripped it down over his enemy's chin. This was enough: "The Kentuckyan at length gave out, on which the people carried off the victor, and he preferring a triumph to a doctor, who came to cicatrize his face, suffered himself to be chaired round the ground as the champion of the times, and the first rougher-and-tumbler." "The poor wretch, whose eyes were started from their spheres, and whose lip refused its office, returned to the town, to hide his impotence, and get his countenance repaired." The citizens refreshed themselves with whiskey and biscuits, then resumed their races."... Yet another as described by a fighter: "...Then you and I are to fight, hey, said I. To be sure all ready !cocked and primed all ready ! At this there was a general outcry, all present setting up a shout, and shaking their hats. Wait a moment, said I, Im not ready so fast I heard you speak of gouging are we going to gouge ? Ay, gouge and bitepull hair and scratch ! was the answer, and again they yelled in chorus. And strangle too, I suppose, said I, thinking if any thing would have an effect on them, it would be a show of self-confidence and coolness. As I spoke, I tore off my stock with a jerk, and the collar and bosom of my shirt followed by which means my chest became exposed, and as he caught sight of it, I saw him quail and well he might, for it is frightful constant exercise and daily habit of sparring has thrown out the muscles, so that when he saw them they were quivering among the luxuriant black hair with which my breast is covered, like a wounded and exasperated snake. Come on, said I, throwing myself into a position to receive him. He leaped at me I sprang aside, and he struck the wall with such violence that it stunned him, and he fell at my feet. Impatient I waited his recovery, for I felt that I could easily level him. At length, he gathered himself up, and with curses set upon me I parried his blows, and gave him two in return one in the pit of the stomach, and one in the face, that made the blood gush from his nostrils in a steady stream he staggered against the wall, and stood there retching and panting for more than a minute, with the blood and whiskey running together from his mouth but the next moment I was under him, as helpless as a babe, stunned and suffocating. Suddenly, I felt his great hand wreathed in my hair, and the thumb approaching my right eye, digging about my temple. I remembered what I had heard it was gouging ! the thought was madness with one effort I grappled at his throat I reached it I seized the loose flesh, and twisted it he uttered a shriek of agony his hold began to loosen his swollen tongue lolled out of his mouth his hand fell, and his breath rattled in his throat I quit my hold, and he rolled from me senseless, black in the face, and apparently dead. I trembled in every joint, shuddered for fear I was a murderer, and fell senseless at his side..." A few interesting takes on the history of amateur, no-holds-barred fighting, as practised in the earliest times of the American States. http://hubpages.com/politics/Science-Art-or-Brutality-What-Is-The-American-Fighting-Form http://jmanly.ejmas.com/articles/2001/jmanlyart_gorn_0401.htm http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/11/1/1786865/james-figg-the-lost-origins-of-the-sport-of-mixed-martial-arts
the 52 As its practitioners like to call it is based loosely on western boxing and some shoddy wing chun the blocks or shapes as they call them are very static and I coulnt ever see them being effective against anyone with minimal training but some do take it serious and call it a martial art not me though I think its made up or a best semi organized street fighting
